Interesting on Avid -thanks.
I have Naim balls and cups and glass holder thingies! Also a glass sheet and MDF boards. Can anyone explain what to do with them?
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Hi Dyna, my LP12 has the Tangerine Audio Stiletto plinth and Skorpion base so is a very rigid construction. All this sits directly onto the HRS isolation platform which has weight specific feet to optimise the platforms performance.
This combination is a great asset and improves the sound enormously bringing more life, detail and nuances that I hadnât heard before on many recordings.
I found putting HRS Nimbus Assemblies (essentially an aluminium block sandwiched between two rubber pads) directly under the LP12, conversely did suck the life out of the music.
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The springs in the LP12 arenât being allowed to work properly if there is some rubber support anticipating vibrations or movement of the deck. I found this out when putting rubber supports (HRS Nimbus Assemblies ) directly under the LP12.
Having a solid hard base and a rigid plinth allows the LP12âs springs to move fast and dynamically rather than wallowing around smearing the sound.
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Hi Nick,
I hope youâve had the demo kit for you to try out. One thing I found useful in deciding on whether they have any effect is not just to do A - B testing, but put them on for a few days and listen to your music then take them off. I found I heard the difference taking them out rather than adding.
Pete
After 2 days of listening, I sat down with an amateur bass clarinetist and a professional guitarist for a proper experiment. I fully expected to reach tentative conclusions, to be tested as I got used to things over a week or so. However, whether we went down from suspected-best or up from suspected-worst, that is not what happened.
Step 1 was the turntable, initially on the Targett wall shelf and its MDF board. Swapping the MDF for laminated glass made things harsh at the top end.
Swapping the MDF for granite (with care verging on paranoia) was an immediate and significant improvement. Adding Naim balls-&-cups on the granite and supporting glass was good for detail and bass punch but unpleasantly strident when playing loud or anything challenging (Trinity Sessions, Kind of Blue, Scary Monsters, Hejira, Nevermind). Replacing glass with MDF reduced clarity and stereo imaging, though not back to where we started.
Next was granite base supporting 4 HRS Nimbus feet, supporting laminated glass, supporting LP12. This gave the best stereo image, the best-controlled bass, the most air on female vocals and the best control of sibilance on close-miked vocals - basically everything. The boogie factor was undamaged.
Next we tried the HRS record clamp/ weight. I have heard several clamps/ weights on LP12s and hated them all - they did a bad job of fixing the LP12âs imperfections while killing the very things that make us own them. This one was different, probably because it aims solely at cutting vibrations.
We all noted better bass control and more life and air at the very top, and less blurriness everywhere. Notes started and stopped more cleanly, and drums had more impact or delicacy (as required). Comparisons with the same music on CD on my CDS3 confirmed that the CD now had literally no advantages (apart from no scratches), while the LP12 still had all the extra involvement that made me prefer it to the CD in the first place. In my system, none of us heard any downside to this clamp and its improvements were the most widespread of anything we did.
Next we tried 4 Nimbus feet between a granite shelf and the Superline phono-stage. At higher volume, we all agreed that these cleaned up the sound noticeably and brought greater control. They had very much the same effect on the CDS3 and the 52 pre-amp, though smaller - no downside except looking a bit ungainly.
We will try them under power supplies and 250 power amp too, but have not yet done so.
Finally, we tried the HRS Damping plates. At low volume and with an unclamped LP12 (or most/ all digital) as the source, these seemed to make no difference. However, with the clamped LP12 and serious volume, we all found that a damping plate on the Superline did much the same as the feet - tightening and making more space for the music, without any downside except looking untidy and inviting ridicule. They had some positive effect on both CDS3 and 52 Preamp too, again most obviously at higher volume, but any effect on power supplies or the 250 power amp was negligible.
I donât like flim-flam salesmen or pseudo-science, and musicians are famously cynical about all this stuff. Nevertheless, after rather over 4 hours, we were all convinced enough that we stopped adding any new comments.
I will certainly buy HRS Nimbus feet to go on the granite and under glass under the LP12. I will also try more appropriate glass and try reversing orders again (and swapping in the MDF for glass one more time), but any winning arrangement will include the HRS feet - once heard, there was no going back to the cups-&-balls or the simpler LP12 on any âlight & rigid standâ options.
I will also get Nimbus feet for the Superline, CDS3 and pre-amp - 4 each. Given that I do turn it up when I can, I will probably also buy damping plates for all 3.
From what we have heard so far, I donât expect to buy feet or plates for power amp or power supplies, and perhaps not the NDX2, but we can do another round of experiments to check on that when I have a house full of the bits and our ears have calmed down.
The first caveat here is a sense of proportion. The size of the improvement on the LP12 is comparable to getting a Karousel, not like replacing a very old Basik arm with an Ekos. For the rest of the kit, the upgrade is smaller than swapping an 82 preamp for the 52, but a good deal bigger than going from the 82 with 1 or 2 Hicaps to a Supercap or going from A5 cable to Tellurium black.
The second caveat is subjectivity. On another day, one or more of us might have thought a bit differently. With an LP12 on a different stand (esp not a wall shelf of this sort at all), we might have found cups-and-balls as good as we hoped or found that a lump of granite was as bad an idea as my initial prejudice suggested. Most important, in a different room and at lower volumes, we might have decided differently. And your ears are not ours.
The third caveat is that there are lots of options. Isoacoustics make similar (cheaper) feet and so do others - none of us wants to try them all.
If I were less worried about total weight on the wall, there are lots of well-regarded isolation platforms to try under the LP12.
If I didnât have granite shelves on my main stand, putting Naim boxes on hefty isolation platforms (as well or instead as feet) might well have been an option.
If the various supports had been radically different, the standard Naim feet and standard Linn support advice might have been all we ever needed and un-improvable (though it doesnât seem likely to me right now).
I am not about to put 3 shelves on the wall and do a proper comparison, so have just been looking at whether we can improve a sensible base design.
Having said all that, we heard what we heard - and listen carefully enough often enough that the difference is (a) not ignorable and (b) about to result in me actually spending money. Any further improvements from what we have already heard from further amendments will just be welcome bonuses.
Using the current piece of glass gives us this:
and
So, how many are so sure that we must be deaf or delusional that they still feel no need to try any support changes ever? Please bear in mind that I wanted to be persuaded not to faff about or spend money, all 3 of us were more than sceptical - there was giggling as products were explained and the feet are now known as rubbery faffs.
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Great to hear it went well Nick 
Thanks Pete. Iâll stand by for incoming comments that none of this can possibly be audible or can only ruin things or that we must be deaf or delusional or working for HRS or are otherwise flat-earth-ists.
I remember 30 years ago when people âexplainedâ to me that all CD players sounded the same and better than any turntable and that anyone who disagreed was in a cult. Plus ca changeâŚ
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Now if you dare ⌠try one of the Gutwire power cables from Stephen at the Audio Consultants on your NAC52 and one on your NAP 250. Itâs quite a phenomenal upgrade and has an uplift like adding more NAIM boxes. There is also an inexpensive Puritan plug you can put into your power block or wall socket that cleans up the RF (itâs not a filter and I donât know how it works ⌠but it does!) lowers noise floor and opens the sound stage.
Cheers Pete
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No!!! My ears are already full! Perhaps next year.
More seriously, thanks to Pete (@916SPS ) in particular, for the various suggestions and to @DogWalker and others for encouraging me to bother with any of this.
Pete, I also agree with you that supporting an LP12 directly on the Nimbus feet instead of its own feet doesnât work.
@GerryMcG - does any of what I said about the HRS products sound like why you like the Townshend Pods?
@anon4489532 - sorry, but itâs another system getting sillier - the ears have decided.
@frenchrooster and @Ryder35 - I strongly suspect that these things worked with my Naim boxes because of the shelves being granite, the floor bouncy and the volume often fairly high. That may explain why our conclusions werenât the same as yours.
And to any Fraim users who need a free set of balls, cups and locators, I may be able to helpâŚ
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One thing you have not tried yet is HRS platform, not footers. Specially under Lp12.
I had different results under Naim boxes, but with Finite Elemente cerapucks. Not tried HRS.
I have a granite base under my turntable which works very very well. So not so dissimilar to you.
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HI Nick,
I have my turntable directly on a granite platform, with the Townshend Pods under the granite. In my view the granite/pods combination yield a significant improvement over the other options I tried. I hav suspended looking, yet I can jump on the flooring without any sonic impact. Just a note that my stands all have granite shelves which I believe to be very effective.
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Dead right @frenchrooster. I was nervous about putting granite plus LP12 on a wall bracket, however carefully I expect we put in the masonry bolts 17 years ago. The full HRS platform is even heavier - and I would need a non-standard one to fit the Target shelf - or to replace the shelf. This sort of tweaking may or may not do better than whichever would be best out of several well-reviewed wall shelves, but it is cheaper and a lot more reversible.
What shelves are under your Naim boxes? With granite, I was happy not to add isolation platform for Naim boxes as another option, but suspected that non-standard feet could work well - they did. If on a Naim Fraim, I might hope that Naim had optimised the feet on their expensive boxes for their expensive support and vice versa.
However, whether using a Fraim or a less rigorous rack, I would still want to hear my Naim boxes with Nimbus feet (and damping plates if you are liberal with volume and/ or the speakers point at the boxes). I would also want to try with (like @916SPS) and without (like me) using their isolation platforms too.
I know nothing of the cerapucks, so canât comment on whether actively disliking the effects of one in your system/ room makes it likely that you wonât like the other. I am not public-spirited enough to order products from 5+ rival makers just to test the differences.
Hi @GerryMcG - it looks like we have done much the same things with rival products, and with equally pleasing results, despite one using a rack and one a wall-shelf.
Itâs interesting that we both rate granite shelves for our electronics and both rate using feet like these too. Perhaps those without granite shelves should be encouraged to try platforms under electronics (with or without hi-tech feet) whether from HRS, Townshend or any of other the sensible-looking choices.
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@916SPS - changing the subject,
Do you still have a 916SPS? My last Ducati was a 999 (before I admitted my age and condition and got a Thruxton R instead), but my 999 never sounded or looked as good as a 916SPSâŚ
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Indeed, at one point when I first got back into vinyl, through necessity I had the Snaxo and Superline on top of the stand housing 6 power supplies. I looked forward to the day when I could place them on the stack of brains anticipating an improvement. In fact there was absolutely no discernible difference when I did this, which I attributed to the granite shelving.
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Have you tried anything non-standard between granite and Naim, or do you only have the Pods for the turntable?
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Sorry, I forgot that you have a target wall shelf for your lp12. So as you said itâs risky to have some very heavy platform.
Regards your question, I use Fraimlite for my Naim and no Naim boxes, as well a Lovan rack. Both racks sit on Finite Elemente cerapucks.
My shelves are only 100mm deep, so no room for experiment. My power stack has 7 units and I do not wish to increase the height. I have wondered though.
Because of temporary space restrictions I have my LP12 on a generic home theater rack, quite cheap and flimsy, and this solution have given me very good results:
I can literally jump on the wood floor next to the turntable and it wonât skip a beat. It is basically a third party alternative to the Trampoline, and does require one of their baseboards, so it can get a bit pricey. Worth considering IME.
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That makes sense.
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I found out a few years ago that Neil Peart had one in his house too Iâve had mine inside for 10 years now.