Yes this is one of the friendliest threads going certainly at the moment.
No one seems to be getting offended every five minutes like on other threads.
You definitely didn’t sound preachy. Tis a forum after all. I actually borrowed a SN2 off a friend and hooked it up last night. It’s a very different listen.
Initially I had that dreaded feeling in my stomach as I thought I may actually be quite settled without the 282/250, but as time went on and the volume went up, it started to struggle with some detail and got a little harsh in comparison. To my ears it actually sounds more fun and lighter (in a good toe tapping way) than my setup at the lower volumes. The 250 can sound a bit lumpy, but then it’s not DR. But when things get a bit more orchestral or up to 11, the 282/250/SC is hard to beat for me.
Unsurprisingly I had to give it back this morning, but it’s left quite a mark. I doubt it had time to warm up so it’s not a fair comparison in many respects.
Fair comments given the short listening window.
Part of the Supernait ownership experience is understanding what it’s inherent limitations are and how to get the best from it.
Now what you should have done was run it with the Supercap, next time…
Yeah, I did think about trying it with the SC but the idea was hatched (1m apart, or whatever the rule is now) in the pub for me to borrow the SN2 and 4 pints later I couldn’t be bothered with the faff of unplugging it all. In all seriousness that lack of a spaghetti bowl of wiring is appealing.
Plus, the thread is debating the addition of a PSU so I figured I’d try without first.
I ran my SN2 with a HiCap, it does benefit from having one. The SN3 I run as is and whilst a PSU will trim the performance of the Preamp it’s not quite the transformation typically associated with adding one to a SN2.
If I was looking to run just a NAIT without a PSU I’d pick the SN3 to do that job.
Hi Mr.M,
did you try the HiCap DR on your SN3? I find it makes quite a difference to the quality of the pre-amp stages on this amplifier. I know you have had great experiences yourself with your past NAIT’s, and were indeed one of the member’s here who prompted me into going for a HiCap DR myself. Now, with my NAIT XS 2 i thought it made quite an improvement on that amp, but with my SN3 even more so. Don’t get me wrong here the SN3 on it’s own is a very formidable amplifier indeed but with a HiCapDR it brings even more of what the bare amp is capable of. It’s a definite upgrade and not a side step i feel. It brings more articulation, clarity and realism. Especially with the NDX 2 as source.
I think what he is saying is the improvement on a SN2 is much more than on a SN3.
Adding a hicapDR to my SN2 was for me a big improvement (and also over a third party psu I had tried prior)
Sure. I appreciate that if you’ve tried it for yourself. I can’t speak for the the SN2 as i don’t have that experience. I can only speak from my experiences with a NAIT XS 2 and SN3. I have tried my SN3 with and without the HiCap DR. Sure the SN3 on it’s own is fantastic but with a HiCap DR it’s quite an improvement and certainly one where i do not in any way would want to go back or wonder what a SuperCap DR would bring to the table?
just slightly puzzled<
I went back and rewatched the Naim Upgrade Path video on YouTube that was mentioned upthread. To me the switch from a bare SN3 to SN3/HCDR was probably the easiest of all the changes to discern. In comparison, the SN3 beforehand sounded a bit “muffled” (relatively speaking) but the noticeable increase in transient speed with the HCDR made the music sound more fresh and alive.
No doubt there would be other benefits to be heard “in the room” but that’s what stood out for me listening on the headphone out socket on a mac-mini to a pair of Sennheiser HD330’s. Further upgrades in the video might have had a greater effect “in the room”, but the limits of the recording process and my listening setup probably made them a bit harder to discern beyond the improvement already brought about by the Hicap.
I have done that exact same test here in my own setting with that same track in that video. Norah Jones - Seven Years. There is quite a marked difference in picking out all of the guitar notes and picturing the hand running up and down the strings when compared with the bare SN3. Just as Jason Gould mentions in that video.
The backgrounds are quieter and more music just comes out of the speakers in a more articulate way. It’s quite spellbinding to be honest. Hence my little confusion in that the HiCap DR only slightly trims the pre-amp. I’m not knocking the already amazing performance of a SN3. It’s a class act on it’s own. Just that for an extra £1,500 you hit another level and to me, it’s not subtle. Anyway, i’m only just sharing my own intimate experiences here also, it’s all good fun either way.
P.S I’m only just guessing here but i would think that the XPS DR would bring even more than a HiCap DR could but whether to introduce that first or the other way around is another idea that is out of my experience. It would be nice to try one later on down the road though. Other members here have said to not try a XPS DR unless you already have the funds to purchase it. I suppose that says it all really.
I’d say @mickdale has interpreted my thoughts here the most accurately!
To your points @Stephen_Tate yes I did try it out on the SN3 for a short amount of time whilst I was deciding to trade it in or not in order to get the NDX2, so at that point of time (also around the time I started this thread) I felt it was a viable sacrifice to let the HiCap go in order to be able to justify the NDX2 purchase.
I don’t think anyone is contesting that adding a HiCap brings with it improvements, It does, and we can accept that for what it is both in terms of financial cost (even new) and sonic improvements.
Comparing the SN2 and SN3 with and without a HiCap is more interesting here and the differences it brings aren’t like for like between them. Yes a HiCap improves the performance of both bare NAIT’s, just not in the same way and with the same level of impact (read that as, what I tried/heard), put another way, a HiCap will change the characteristics of a preamp, sometimes the results aren’t favourable, sometimes they are more subtle than expected, room/speakers/cabling probably play a part here inevitably of course.
This also feeds in to the thought process of what the upper limit in performance is with a Supernait, hence my other threads and discusions around SuperCap on a Supernait and adding a 555PS to an NDX2, cost put to one side, does that squeeze performance sufficiently to avoid the need for a move to a NAC/NAP based system (which I’m hoping to avoid, if I can)
Re the Hicap DR on a SN3 , i think the only way to be sure about this would be to try to borrow one for a good weekend (or prefably more) in your own system, rather than a casual listen in a demo. I hope to try one at some stage, though way off yet. Martin Colloms and Paul Messenger certainly raved about using one on a SN2. Jason Gould described the difference as vast.
It’s funny how everyone sees the magnitude of differences in sound quality to their own ears quite markedly different here. For example , someone on here thought the Xpsdr didn’t make much difference on a ndx2. Maybe the burndy was touching something else and was not socially distancing?
Now that you have had the Ndx2 for a week or so, any further thoughts against the Ndsxs2. Do you still miss the boogie factor?
And what qualities has it brought in place of that. Worth the extra £3k over the entry level model, or a case of diminishing returns and you have to accept that?
The fancy screen, remote and upgrade psu factor must account for a bit of that chunk of money?
Just to be clear here, I’m a big fan of the HiCap in general and had owned one for over 10 years in one guise or another. If you have the funds and have yet to add one it will bring benefits and it will improve performance certainly where a Supernait 2/3 is concerned.
NDX2 vs ND5 XS2, another topic, but it’s a real winner combo (SN3 + NDX2) in what ever configuration you happen to have from what I’ve discovered in the last 4 months or so.
The ND5 XS2 is a great product at its price point, my feeling here is it’s best suited to a NAIT XS based system, I owned one just over a year from new and felt at times it shone and sounded great whilst other times you’d hear its limitations and find it trying too hard to keep you happy. The NDX2 just keeps things moving along more capably and with a better sense of realism.
“Now that you have had the Ndx2 for a week or so, any further thoughts against the Ndsxs2. Do you still miss the boogie factor?” - Sorry this was meant for Stephen Tate particularly , having just made the change, but appreciate your thoughts as well.
I’m probably on the wrong thread for this aspect.
I’m missing something I think: why would one consider the XPS DR, but not be interested in the effect of a SuperCap on SN3?
I certainly am as you know!
All points of comparison welcome and of interest.
Well the XPS is being fully utilised but a Supercap you would be only using two rails.
Rails smails, where’s your sense of adventure?!
In my experience, the change with the XPS DR on my NDX 2 was significant. The change to my SN 2 with the HiCap DR was very nice but did not have the immediate impact from the first time I plugged it in.
That was on my system in my room with my ears but others have reported differently.
On the old forum there were members who stated they preferred the sound of the SN 2 without a HiCap DR. I only remember hearing from one member on the forum that they did not think the XPS DR did not make a significant impact on their NDX 2. In that case I believe they only demonstrated the power supply at the dealer not at home.
I have been fortunate that I have a dealer close by who can demo on the showroom and he allows home demonstrations. It is sometimes limited since he does not always carry all of the Naim range in the shop nor has a large inventory of demo units for all of the Naim equipment.
Some of us are still here!
G