Supernait 3 and ATC scm19

Hcdr is on going

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I compare sn3 and atc with my old 30w olives and Devore and there is no game at low volume

I agree but I m not sure that 250 is a lot more powerful than sn3

The SN 3 is a power and pre amp that sells for $4990.00. The 250 DR is Power Amp that sells for $6890.00.

I have owned a SuperNait and now a 282 & 250 DR. I can tell you the separates is an upgrade in the performance and sound produced over the SuperNait. Ask your dealer for a 250 DR demo at home. You can play an album with your SN 3 on its own then by using the pre-amp section of the SN 3 into a 250 DR and then make your own decision. Or ask your dealer to demo in their showroom.

The SuperNait is a great integrated amp. As I mentioned above, demo a HiCapDR. If that does not change the sound signature with the ATC SMC 19ā€™s you will need to change your speakers or change the PowerAmp.

You could also demo a Naim XPS DR with your DAC vs the current Power Supply your using. That may provide an improvement in your sound as well. I know when I added a XPS DR to my NDX 2 into my bare SN2 that was a huge improvement to my ears in my room. I added the HiCap to the SN2 six months later and that was another uplift but not as much as the XPS DR.

Good luck finding a solution but their are a lot of variables to explore. Your system in your room with your earsā€¦

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No, just single amp (I have SN3+HiCap DR)

The ATC SCM19 is more of a mixing / production type speaker in characteristics rather than a consumer Hi-Fi. Therefore it wonā€™t add excitement like consumer Hi-Fi speakers are designed to doā€¦ perhaps at low volume. Therefore the SCM19 always sounds best at mid to higher volumesā€¦ in fact itā€™s relatively low distortion often encourages you to turn the sound up.
Now speaker amp matching is also important as suggested. It is a infinite baffle (sealed box) two way design and therefore is less sensitive for a given power, so higher amplification will sound better to give more control, especially at higher volumes. However the latest curved box SCM19 design has a more amp friendly crossover built in so can work well with more modest amps, albeit not an high volumes (in an enjoyable way). I believe ATC recommend around 70 watts as a minimum amp powerā€¦ not to say lesser amps wonā€™t work well, itā€™s just it may be more hit and miss with performance across different styles of audio/music.
I found the NAP250 worked rather well with it. I am afraid no experience with the Supernaitā€¦
But with quality electronics, you are unlikely to get excitement at very low volumes with sort sort of U or V shape eq such as ā€˜loudnessā€™ā€¦ however do check interconnects and speaker cable to ensure they are not attenuating high mids / treble. Remember for domestic audio the SCM19 is pretty neutralā€¦ which is why so many love itā€¦ but it does need consideration in matching. Excitement tends to come from frequencies around 4K upwards.

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Simon do you think that 250 has really better driving capabilities than supernait?

thanks @seakayaker the hcdr is coming but i plan to move to separates. Do you consider definitely your configuration a hue step compared to sn?

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@piebia following @Simon-in-Suffolkā€™s points about the general nature of ATC speakers, and about interconnects and speaker cables, what about removing your Superlumina interconnect and putting the lavender in?

This whole situation might be so much cheaper and easier to fix than you think. Unless of course you actually want a 282, HCDR, 250DR or better.

I have returned to the lavender in my Naim and ATC set to good effect, in order to overcome the exact problem you describe.

Chris

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Ciao @Christopher_M I don t know the lavander and I ll get some info.
I have 2 area in which I could work, one is the psu of the dac and the other one is the superlumina, however I m happi with my sound the week point is only the low volume dynamic which probably is an atc signature

Thanks. The lavender is Naimā€™s standard interconnect cable. It is DIN to DIN, grey coloured with a slightly lavender hue. The lavender is supplied with Naim CD players, streamers and tuners. Compared with Superlumina it is ā€˜cheap as chipsā€™ and should be available from your dealer to order. It will fit your nDAC.

Hope that helps.

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Piebia - I am sorry I have not used the supernait 3. On paper they both (NAP250DR / Supernait 3) support 80 Watts per channel into 8 ohm impedance - so they look pretty similar - but I am sure they sound different to some extent and only you can decide the preference

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The 250 is much more capable at driving speakers than a Supernait 3. There is far more to driving speakers than rated output alone.

When I was changing systems last year I tried the SCM11 with the SN3 and it seemed OK at lower volumes, but I wouldnā€™t use the 19 without a 250.

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I think that you cannot comment the 282 as well because I remember you didn t love it

You might have me confused with someone else, I very much enjoyed my 282 - however I preferred it with my single HiCapDR rather than driving it with dual channel PSU from my SuperCapDRā€¦ but the latter might give the added excitement you are after at very low levels.

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Without a shadow of doubt, yes, having listened to a Supernait on quite a few occasions, and owned a 250DR, the separate power amp is far superior. Donā€™t be fooled by the 80W spec they both share.
Of course you have to see the 250 as part of a complete amp, so you are really comparing a Supernait with a 282/Hicap/250. There would be something very wrong if this much more expensive 3-box amp doesnā€™t better a Supernait. In terms of the ability to drive demanding speakers, or to drive any speaker hard, remember that the 250 is the first of the range to be a fully regulated design, and my guess is that this is the biggest reason for its greater abilities.

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The Nap 250 is 15.8kg.
The Supernait is 14kg. and part of itā€™s power supply is used to feed the preamplifier section.

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Yes, I found the move to separates to be a wonderful upgrade over the SuperNait. I added the NAC 282 first since I already had the HiCapDR to power the PreAmp section of the SN 2. When I added the 282 to the SN 2 the music opened up, improved detail and bass. It was a huge improvement over the preamp section of the SN 2. Once again I would recommend that you demo this at your dealer and at home if you think you would like to head in the direction of separates. You do not have to do it all at once. I was planing to wait 6 months before looking for a 250 DR but a 2 year old trade in became available through my dealer and picked it up a month or so after adding the 282. Once again a lovely upgrade and an improvement in the bass.

Different members have made the change with the power amp first then the pre amp. Some have done it at the same time. You do have lots of options and time is on your side.

I would also suggest you take the advice from Chris above and swap out the Superlumina interconnect with the standard interconnect to see if that makes a difference. A small change may provide the uplift you need for the time being while you plan your future upgrades.

I have been fortunate that I have a dealer close by who has provided demonstrations in the shop and then allowed home demonstrations prior to purchase. Other dealers may require purchase but offer full refunds if returned within a designated time period.

Also HH above mentioned the use of ATC SMC 11 as a possible alternative. I would not hesitate to give this a try with the SN 3 to see if it is a better match in delivering the sound you are looking for. I recently moved to a smaller room in the house for a number of months and picked up a used pair of ATC SMC 7 speakers since my ProAc D30R floor standers were not a good match for the room. I am quite happy with these speakers they can not match the bass from the larger speakers but deliver fantastic detail. Sometimes we are limited by our environment and have to make the best with what we have to work with.

Good luck with your exploration and upcoming decisions. The journey continuesā€¦

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I owned SCM 19ā€™s with a Supernait 2 and a 250 DR en route to separates . The SN2 or 3 are brilliant integrated amps but they can in no way match the 250 in terms of grip , drive and control . As others mention ( and have done for many years ) I think a 250 is minimum for the 19ā€™s and now that Iā€™m an Active user that view is only strengthened . Regarding which ATCā€™s are the easiest to drive , I asked that question to Richard from ATC in relation to using an Atom and he said the 11ā€™s would be slightly easier than the 7ā€™s .

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Not exactly the same, but Iā€™ll chip in with my studio monitor + SuperNait experience.

When I auditioned my SN1 it was paired with ATC SCM11s (older version) and was a magical experience. I preferred it to the ATC Integrated I was comparing it to and bought the SN1.

My regular speakers are Duntech PCL10 Studio Monitors. These are not quite as hard to drive as the ATCs, but definitely need a bit of volume to kick them into gear.

The SCM11s and 19s have been high on my list of eventual replacements for my Duntechā€™s, but I have concerns about a SNAIT being able to drive the SCM19s.

Shortly after I bought my SN1, I had the chance to spend some time with a SuperUniti and SCM40 pairing and it was not engaging or able to really grip and control the speakers. My perception of the SU was that it wasnā€™t as good an amp/pre as the SNAIT, but rightly or wrongly it left me with a clear impression Iā€™d need something significantly ā€˜moreā€™ to drive a SCM40/19 properly.

If I had to do it all over againā€¦ Iā€™d probably go SCM19A with a NAIM PREā€¦ Maybe someday I still will :slight_smile:

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