Supernait 3 upgrade options

I apologize if I offended anyone m

Please don’t apologise! Just try the supplied lead: Naim do know what they are doing.

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Yep, Naim is on their game. I’m just saying they do make the Powerline and Powerline Lite. I wasn’t expecting either of those $$$ cords in the box however I didn’t think I would be having this discussion.
But the cord does work. I’m using it to charge my phone

No one is “offended.” Where we can deal with facts, we like facts. “Inadequate” sounds like a factual assertion. “Insufficient for intended purpose” is a common definition. So we’re wondering what leads you to this factual conclusion that Naim have provided a power cord that is insufficient for its intended purpose.

Which is different than, say, “I was disappointed that my Supernait 3 came with an 18 gauge power cord. I expected something of lower gauge.”

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  • factual in being it didn’t meet “my” satisfaction, expectations for the intended purpose. Factually, it disappointed me. I just expected more. Just those facts.
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Apparently you trusted the brand and spent quite some money to get your SN3 — now trust Naim that they wouldn’t put an inadequate mains cable in the box that will drag down the performance of their lovely amp… Not sure whether I read such irritating “disappointment” before…

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I feel like Naim had always used the Tibia PC to gel well with their components versus most other brands who issue a more or less throwaway cord. It was always a genuinely thought out part of the design to perform well. For years I never used another type of PC with Naim gear until AVOptions Tibia offerings came about. Those guys know Naim, as they were once employed by them, and obviously utilize the Tibia to great effect; an affordable alternative to the Powerline, really. I replaced my Powerlines with them, as I thought they performed just as well with anything I connected them to, period. My Naim PSUs, up until recently, had the supplied PCs on them, then the AVOptions for a bit. Now everything in my system has either Synergistic Research or Kimber Palladian PK-10s. Not certain they’re worth it if I paid retail, but I digress.

If it didn’t meet someone’s satisfaction, then so be it, I say. How many thousands of pages and threads have differing opinions of cables—from PCs to Ethernet to digital to ICs? Electrical properties, functionality and laws aside, there are no facts when it comes to cable performance X over Y and as far as I can tell likely never will in my lifetime. I can’t even open a thread that has cable in the title anymore. It always follows the same course.

As an aside, I always thought the Naim Integrateds, separate Amps/Pres and CD players came with 14ga at least. My SN2 came with this…cannot remember what the NDX2 had. I’d have to check.

Sorry everyone, I didn’t mean to get into weeds on this topic. I mean it was 4:40 am. It simply caught me by surprise. No hard feelings, please.
G

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No worries Gracie.1. For me it was a fun diversion read. What the folks are saying is true. From what I can tell Naim thinks about every component in the chain.

If I was you I wouldn’t make any changes for awhile. The SN3 from what I recall sounds great out of the box but even better after a month or so.

About as much fun as watching an episode of Never Mind the Quality Feel the Width.

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Thanks marcusman - I’ve got the spinner on repeat. Letting it marinate! It is sounding good. Playing Bozzio, Levin and Steven’s, Black Light Syndrom. Recording Masterpiece.

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The thing with the PSUs on the NDX2 is that it certainly isn’t a small change. I’d say it’s a big one; a big improvement. The prices are silly high, but I did crude percentages and it sort of works out. Based on the % improvement for % cost. This was with a (used) XPS-DR, which is a pretty good proposition. Never heard a 555.

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Hello Caio,

I reply to you directly without reading all the posts because I’ve been on this forum for fourteen years and I think I know in advance most of the types of suggestions.

The SN3 is a very competent amp, I’ve had a SN1 three times and never liked the SN2. The most relevant trait of the 3 is probably the DR power supply to the preamp section - apart from some refinement to the voicing.
There are basically two types of upgrade: one that somehow optimizes the unit taking it to its full potential and one that boosts up some of its features; adding an external PSU belongs to the first type and adding a power amp to the second.

A preamp’s Watt requirements (Watt meaning its power consumption) is probably well under 1 Ampere; a HiCap is overkill in this respect, but its main sense is in providing the preamp with a dual rail of tension instead of the single rail provided by the internal PSU; the large transformer and capacitors of the HC may probably ‘beef up’ the sound a little, but as far as proper power supplying is concerned, you don’t need it. You can see the use of a HiCap as luxury optimization.

Adding a power amp to a SN is, in my opinion, idiocy: a fine integrated is a complete and balanced unit, using its preamp section with a superior power amp like a 250 will make it an unbalanced system where the preamp is not up to the power amp. If you had a 250 and were asking here for suggestions about a preamp, everyone would tell you to use a 282 at least; but since you ask about upgrading an integrated, for most the addiction of a 250 becomes logical. It’s the paradoxical way of reasoning here, always from bottom up, always in a forward perspective. The mere existence of an official Upgrade Path obviously encourages this. It’s very difficult, in NaimWorld, to stay where one is appreciating things as they are; a waste in my opinion, Naim makes very fine gear and then you are constantly encouraged to be dissatisfied with it.

So I ask you: why are you thinking of upgrading in the first place? What is not of your taste with the SN?
It has power, refinement, sound - what’s wrong with it? What’s not to be liked?
Once there was the Source First Credo: nothing can be better than the link in the chain that precedes it. So are you sure that a 250 would perform optimally following the SN3’s preamp? Is it best to use the full potential of the integrated or to exploit a fine power amp only partially?

That said, I am a very bad preacher - I’ve changed and mixed and added over the years, to reach a point where my last but one Naim system was CDX2/282/SC/250 and the last one ND5 XS2/NaitXS2. The latter made my Ovator S-400s perform globally better in my room.
I’ve never been able to leave an empty PSU socket alone: I have added external PSUs whenever it was feasible. It took me a long time to accept that it was not always an improvement. Yet, completing an amp was sort of beneficial to my peace of mind. You can see the use of a (second hand!) HiCap, DR if possible, as that.

Also, keep in kind that the Upgrade Path is not unfinished; you can’t expect it to be followed until the end of your days, providing a never-ending source of amusement. It ends. When it ends, you have no other option than downsizing steeply to start it all over again. Many have passe through it, here. Just ask.
So, before you start your Frankenstein journey where a SN3 has a HiCap sewed at one end and a 250 wired at the other, think that if you really want to play with your Totem Forests you can look for a used NAP 200 instead and bi-amp the speakers. But a SN3 is indeed a very fine integrated.

Best and good luck,
Max

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He’s been asked this three times now but I’ve not seen an answer. Perhaps now he will respond?..

I like what you say about integrated amps being a complete package and adding a power amp doesn’t make sense. Not played with adding a PSU to one, but I do think the chances are low of a PSU upgrade being the best way to invest any spare funds.

As for generally getting lost in the upgrade path, this emphasises the importance of careful evaluation, not just the HiFi stuff, but impact on musical understanding. But I know it’s difficult at times, especially when being tempted by HiFi candy. And again, it relates to your point about balance. Whilst it’s useful to have upgrade paths, it’s the complete setup that matters and how well it works as one system. These days, finding a well balanced step somewhere on the ladder makes more sense to me then constantly upgrading individual parts just cos I can afford it and fancy an ‘improvement’.

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All any of us can do is give advice and the OP can take it or leave it. I tried a SN3 last autumn and was so pleased with it that I bought it. It is, as Max says above, perfectly fine just as it is. Extra funds would in my humble opinion be far better spent on source improvements, which the amplifier is more than capable of revealing.

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The truest statement in this whole thread :+1: :+1: :+1:

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Would you guys prefer they didn’t offer so much upgrade potential then?

Or is it the pressure from dealers/forums that you don’t like?

This

This seems one of the easier things to avoid

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crikey- over 200 posts on this subject - who would have thought it could be so complicated !!