Switch question

Streaming Audio
21

But then there’s so many other devices like the WiiM streamers that use very basic non earthed PSU ?

22

well what can I say - you pay for what you get… if you want to reduce circulating currents (common mode noise) there are certain things you need to do… a switch can be quite a hub of circulating currents - and you want the low impedance path being via the mains earth - not your streamer.

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23

The subject came up recently when someone posted here that the SMPS on their Unitiserve had failed. I believe he found a replacement of the same rating which worked, but it was double insulated, where the Naim supplied original was not and was supplied with a 3 pin earthed kettle lead. Probably not ideal, even though it had the correct Voltage and Amp rating.

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24

I understand, thanks for clarifying the issues involved

I need to check now the Linksys velop mesh devices and are properly earthed also as they’re also connected to the Ethernet

25

At the time I was using very basic unmanaged switches so it had no loop detection

That’s why I moved to managed switches to prevent this in the future but anyway I wil be a lot more careful now and will remove any extra Ethernet cables !

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26

I was surprised that a lot of unmanaged switches do have loop detection when I looked into it.
So assuming, as many use the same switch set chips, and there are not that many brands & variations, I suspect most switches will have it in some form or other.
How effective is another question tho’.

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27

So does having one switch with earthing then help? I need 3 switches, not sure I need to buy 3 cisco 2960….

28

well I would put the earthed switch where it directly connects to the streamer

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29

There are some bargains to be had on the English Electric EE16 16-port switch to be had at the moment if you search around a bit……

ATB, J

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30

Here’s a few tests I did with network switches and power supplies. You may find it interesting.
For us, there were considerable gains to be had doing this using a Netgear GS105E: ‘Simple’ L2 “Smart Managed” gigabit switch, some of these things you have already done.

https://community.naimaudio.com/t/switches-and-switch-psus-with-1st-gen-streamer-a-272/

31

Thanks Xanthe, it was your thread the led me to buy 3 Netgear switches (2 of the 105E and another 108E - 8 ports). one for the NAS, 2 were for the TV/AV systems (Apple TV/Chord 2qute/202/200 and a Apple TV/Chord Mojo feeding a Yamaha AV/KEF 2005 system)

Without the power saving mode on and without the Ifi, I could already hear (I hope it is not expectation bias though) an improvement over the plastic unmanaged switch, but can you please confirm that this is what you are using now as your profile says that you are using a Cisco 2960?

I know that I fi power supplies have some circuits that eliminate noise, but I am hoping there is something to be gained maybe by having a switch the that is earthed also.

I have an option to buy a New old stock Cisco WS-C2960C-8PC-L, I hope it is earthed, @Simon-in-Suffolk can you please help me to check this. The shipping I suspect will be quite expensive but I am ok with this, as these switches (both Cisco and Netgear) do last for a very long time. A single I fi power supply will cost close to 100 GBP also?

32

On the Linksys there is an option to turn on EEE Energy efficient Ethernet, but apparently this can lead to more headache than the energy saved in terms of some devices not responding properly to the power saving feature

I dd hear a small difference turning this on and then also it maybe sounded better switching this off, not sure whether to use it or not?

33

It uses a three pin IEC socket so yes looks like it’s earthed.

34

Still use the Netgear 105E, we just forgot to update our profile!

35

It’s great to hear you’re exploring the impact of a managed switch on your audio system. Networking gear, especially in audio setups, can sometimes influence system performance in subtle ways, particularly in terms of noise isolation and signal stability.

Regarding Your Question:

Adding another switch between the wall and the Wiim Pro could potentially affect your audio performance, but the actual difference depends on several factors:

  1. Noise Isolation and Jitter:
    Managed switches, like your Linksys LGS310C, often have better shielding and power supply adapter designs compared to unmanaged or consumer-grade switches. These attributes can reduce network-induced noise. Adding a second switch of similar quality might further isolate noise, though the benefits could be marginal given that your setup already uses optical output from the Wiim Pro, which isolates the DAC electrically.
  2. Network Traffic Handling:
    Additional switches can potentially buffer or improve how data packets are delivered to the Wiim Pro. This is usually more noticeable in congested networks or if your streamer is sensitive to packet delivery quality.
  3. Power Quality:
    The power supply quality of the added switch may introduce or reduce electrical noise. Using a high-quality linear power supply with the switch might enhance the result.
36

Thank you Simon, for your guidance. I managed to borrow a Cisco 3560 router, and I can certainly both see (on my TV) and hear the difference on my Naim systems that it makes, as you said, it is to do with earthing the router.

On audio the noise floor seems to be lower, and on Video seems the picture is more dynamic, more colorful.

Wish I had done this years ago now.

Thanks to everyone who contributed with their good advice !

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37

Excellent Ali, yes the Cisco 3560 is a Layer 3 switch… otherwise known as a routing capable switch

38

We used a 3560 for a time with our 272.

Once everything was turned off which we didn’t need (ports/POE etc.) it sounded great.

We currently have a WS-C2960C-12PC-L in place, but not for audio purposes. A simpler device, but also IEC inlet grounded.

39

Thanks again Simon. I also borrowed and tested an English Electric 8 Switch.

I did not want to see or hear any improvements, but I saw clear improvements in picture quality within a few seconds, and for the sound also (but not immediately that obvious), seems less noise in the music.

I am tempted, but then it isn’t grounded but the 16 switch appears grounded. But at some cost !

I did A/B with the Cisco 3560, EE 8switch, and the Netgear, both the Cisco and 8Switch do appear to reduce noise which is clearly visible in Picture quality

But now that they have been returned, I am just waiting for the 2960 Cisco to arrive. As you said it should be next to the main hi-fi system, but I do have the AV in 2 other rooms, so not sure how to proceed.

As you said I do agree with grounding is quite necessary, I don’t want the circulating current to enter the Streamer or apple TV, and even if the Chord DAC is connected through optical as Rob Watts says, it does reach the mains through the SMPS power supply of the Switch !

Interesting, I never thought to buy an enhanced router, now I think it’s essential.

Ho hum. I could also buy an Ifi Ipower X for the Netgear, which is also a viable option.

40

Hi Ali, I would keep your network components away from your audio equipment, just use a long patch lead. ISTR I use approx a 5m patch lead between my NDX2 and its switch. Ideally you would have a single earthed switch supporting as much as you can, but the layout of cables s a consideration,

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