System choice advice

Good evening following my two previous posts I have used the information provided to arrive at 3 possible choices for my system uprate. They are all affordable but advice on the best choice would be very helpful. I have ignored cables for now and will go for speakers once I have the system in place.

Existing system LinnMajik 140’s, SN3, NDX2, CD5Si.

Option 1…as Existing plus Hi-Cap DR, XPSDR or 555DR, Audiolab 9000CDT
Option 2…as Existing plus 252 or 282, Nap250, CDT9000 (trade in SN3 & CD5si)
Option 3…as Existing plus NSC222, NPX300, CDT9000 (trade in SN3, NDX2, CD5si)

I hope these options make sense, all of the retro stuff is available if I go down routes 1 & 2. It has taken me ages to get to grips with the Naim nomenclature so I know you will let me know if I have made any gaffs.

So which system would you go for, I am not looking for headbanging loudness but something with well defined instrumentation over and above my existing set up which is nice but I would like a little more detail, hence the power supplies. I have largely overcome my previous problems with distortion (due mainly to playing at too high a volume) after making adjustments to my hearing.

Option 2 needs a power supply. HiCap or, for 252, Supercap. I’d go for DR version of 250 as power amp.

Option 3 needs a power amp. NC 250 is the obvious choice.

I like the NC stuff so I’d probably opt for No 3. Others are not so keen and 252/SC/250DR would be very nice, but at that level I think you’d need a power supply on the NDX.

Choice is so personal, though. Any chance you can audition?

Roger

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Thanks Roger-I knew I would mess it up-the array of new and old configurations is bewildering. I was going to check it out with Naim this afternoon as I also wanted to know which has the better Dac NDX2 or NSC222 couldn’t find a number for the UK on their website only USA and Canada??

I’ve adjusted my spreadsheet to add the Power amp and power supply.

Some of the stuff on the list is not on the Naim website so I’m assuming only available on the after market, Hi-cap, 252/282 etc so I’m just taking best advice. The newer stuff I might be able to audition as you say.

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I’ve got got NSC222, NPX TT, NVC TT.
Due to the lack of matching Naim CD, I added a Audiolab 9000CDT.
The finish of the Audiolab is of such a different “shade of black - it’s actually matt grey” that it looked really cheap in comparison to the Naim gear.
Due to lack of use, and the looks, I got rid of the Audiolab.

That may are not be a consideration for yourself.

Yes my focus is digital and seemingly yours is Vinyl plus streaming. I agree the 9000cdt isn’t pretty, how did cd’s sound played through your sytem though, and did you buy a different CDT?

I started with SN3 and NDX2 and they are a great combo.

I added a XPS-DR to the NDX2 and found it worthwhile, but with hindsight I might have gone for the 555ps instead.

I then added a Supercap DR to the SN3. I knew it wasn’t fully utilised but it paved the way for a 252 if I wanted it in future, and I preferred the full box aesthetic. At this stage it was a great 4 box system, and I probably would still have it if I could be trusted on ebay after a couple of bottles of wine!

So I ordered a 252, and a 300dr. Honestly it is noticeably better than the SN3 and Im really pleased with it, but it turned out more expensive than planned because at this level I thought it deserved a Fraim (plus I only had room for 4 boxes on existing rack, but now I have 6). I also didn’t notice the 252 has no headphone socket (SN3 does) so I needed a separate headphone amp. Also worth remembering the 252 lacks a built in phono stage, so if you’re using the one in the SN3 you’ll need to budget for that too.

Can’t help you with the NC kit though as I’ve never heard it. Many say it is really quite a different sound to the older kit so definitely hear it first.

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I did bother to make comparisons with the Audiolab and aby other source. I previously had a Cyrus CDi-XR but invested in an Audiolab DC 6 blocker and didn’t want to have to many different vendors.

I found the CD experience to be as fun as listening to a streamer so decided to ditch the CD and hide the Audiolab DC 6 somewhere where it can’t be seen.

Vinyl is a minor fraction of my listening, it’s normally just streaming.

Ah OK I made the assumption perhaps wrongly that the TT’s are mainly for Analogue but I see they are suitable for digital as well-not a choice that I have seen mentioned before but worthy of consideration and comparatively inexpensive.

Thank goodness I gave up drinking 12 months ago…LOL.

I’m really trying to build the system in one hit so your approach is a valuable lesson but the net result is probably where I’m going so thanks for the useful info and confirmation that I’m heading the right way. :+1:t3:

Just to add I don’t use headphones and traded in my LP12 so phono stage is not needed either. Your system seems bang on for my requirements.

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The NPX TT and the NVC TT and purely for the LP12 - they do not support anything digital.
The NSC 222 performs all digital duties.

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If it were my decision, the decision tree would look something like this

OC or NC?

If the latter 3 obvs.

Cd5si to CDT9000 - am I sure this is not a sideways move? If it is ££’s are being wasted that could go somewhere else.

Sequencing - not as important as people make out ( I ran a NAP200 for some time with a NAC112) and neither a PS for your NDX nor a NAC in front of your SN3 will be money wasted.

So having decided on OC, I’d take the pre-loved opportunities as they arise with the end goal in mind and not worrying about transition states in between.

Sorry not familiar with OC? NC?

The Cdt9000 is because the DAC in the NDX2 is better than in the CD5? However if I kick off with buying a 555DR maybe that would obviate the need for the CDT do you think. As it is now the CD5si in inferior to the CDT/NDX2

Old Classic vs New Classic.

If you’re happy the CDT is an improvement, then it makes sense. PS should lift streaming and CD replay through the NDX DAC.

Overall cost might drive the answer then, once you have added the missing items, the cost differences will likely point you in one direction?

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One more view…

A. Amplification. The Old Classic boxes now offer remarkable sound-per-£ and are easy to find - which option is best will be driven by budget. and preferred box-count All of the below could be bought today on eBay (so no patience required), but you may well be able to find local dealers with ex-dem boxes if you want to audition first. OC boxes will look like your NDX2 and are vastly cheaper s/h than new or nearly new New Classic boxes like a 222, 332 or 333.

Level 1. Keep all that you have but add Hicap DR to the SN3. To most ears, that is a noticeable improvement.

Level 2. Keep all that you have but add Hicap DR to SN3 and XPSDR to NDX2. The latter is the streaming combo I still use in Wimbledon - it is very good indeed,

Level 3. Sell SN3 and buy 282 and Hicap DR and 250DR as amplification. To many, that is better than level 2, but some reckon the NDX2 is now a bit of a weakness (!), so…

Level 4. As for level 3, but add XPSDR for the NDX2. It’s a classic combination for a reason.

Level 5. As for level 4, but with 252 and Supercap to power it instead of 282 and Hicap DR.

All of those are OC boxes that will look like your NDX2. If visually appropriate, you can get a very similar (some say fractionally more engaging) sound for a lot less money by buying olive 82 and Hicap instead of 282 and HicapDR. Just check that any boxes that are much over a decade old have been serviced at some point.

The same reasoning would get you the wonderful ‘olive’ 52 and Supercap instead of 252 and Supercap.

An olive 250 is competitive and again amazing VFM, but many marginally prefer 250DR.

Note too that the excellent olive monoblock 135s and the mighty 500 power amp were developed to work alongside a 52 - it and the replacement 252 really are that good. OTOH, I used a 52/SC/250 for over a decade - it’s magnificent

B. After doing all that, I would then think about your CD options. Your existing player is good, but can be beaten by a good transport into your NDX2 (esp if you have added XPSDR to it). However, how many CDs have you got, and how much do you value physically putting them in a machine?

The reason I ask is that I have a wonderful CD player (Naim CDS2) and lots of CDs. However, I ripped all the CDs into a Naim Core and play them from that down here in Tasmania. At some stage I will get another Core to replace the CDS2 (which is ancient and will die one day) instead of a new CD player or a transport.

In lots of A-B testing in Wimbledon, not a single person could distinguish playing a ripped CD on the Core/ NDX2/XPSDR from playing the same CD on the CDS2. It’s that good.

Ripping several hundred CDs was a bit of a pain, but it took about a minute per CD and the sound is 100% Naim and very good indeed - imho well ahead of your existing player and better than the Audiolab. A Core is even small!

From other threads here, I think I am not alone in taking this route instead of buying a CD transport or a new CD player. I bought mine for £1000 (with 2TB of memory, which is loads) for £1000 on eBay.

With no moving parts that can be trashed or worn out, why not buy that way (and then put your CDs in the loft if you like)? When I get ‘new’ CD, I spend minute or so loading it into the Core (just pop it in and wait until I can see it on the Naim app) and then I am ready to play.

C. When you have done all that you want to do about amp choices on list A, and quite possibly after addressing CDs on list B, you can think about speaker upgrades. Doing that may be unnecessary (depending on how far you go), but in any case it would be tricky to decide anything about speakers until you have your replacement electronics in place.

Good luck!

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Thank you for a very comprehensive and thought provoking reply, it really is helpful having the upgrades laid out in a step by step fashion, especially as I am new to Naim and the product list and longevity is amazing.

Thanks for taking the time!

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The CDT improves the detail against the CD5 and I am glad to hear that a PS will improve things still further.

Many thanks for responding.

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Just established OC / NC .

I’m looking at NSC222 + Nap250 + NPX300 + CDT (trading in CD5,NDX2and SN3) at the moment to limit the number of boxes.

My age decrees that this will be my last system so getting new kit sort of future proofs things.

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