Don’t make the assumption that all integrated amps are necessarily inferior to pre/power combos. Whilst in the distant past there was probably truth in that, I don’t think it is any longer the case. There are some really excellent (and seriously expensive) integrated amps on the market these days and there is a school of thought that integrated amps are preferable on musical grounds.
Of course within a brand like Naim the pre/power amps are superior to the integrateds but that’s because of the particular engineering path their products are built around - it’s not a universal truth.
I would say keep an open mind and audition a few integrated amps as well as the pre/power combos. You may find yourself very surprised at what is achievable.
Actually, one integrated, the Sim Audio Moon 7000i has also been put forward as possible solutions by my dealer.
Sugden are first on the list as they’re British, Bryston second because they’re likely to drive my Mani-2’s best. If I don’t get on with those I’ll try the 7000i, which is the most expensive option of the three.
Suggestions on the integrated’s are most welcome. The Accuphase mentioned earlier has rave reviews and interested me but it’s looks didn’t receive spouse approval.
I’ve performed an internet search on some of the brands suggested by @anon17748768 and @RvL and was surprised to see some very capable looking (on paper) integrated amplifiers. Obviously I’ve not heard them, but there is a strong appeal to replacing four boxes with one, but solely if it performs as well. The appearance of some of them would be a bit of a challenge, particularly after living with the anti-bling, reserved, appearance of Naim kit for so long (although maybe the plastic block and white logo on the front of Solstice might suggest Naim could be planning a change to more bling on future models).
Hi Steve. I can’t speak about the pre amps you’ve mentioned but I I’ve heard Rega’s Osiris in an all Rega reference set up and even though it was a good few years ago I was very impressed. I’d say it was somewhere between pre DR 282/250 level. British too so could be worth an audition. The casework is stunning too so might be worth trying out if possible.
Upgraded, to my ears, to Aavik I-280 from 282/250DR combo. Very refined, tremendous detail and much improved control of the sound still with lots of PRaT when needed. I think I’m most impressed with the control I have over the level of the music. With Naim to me it’s like controlling the sound with a hammer primarily due to the volume control which maybe great for the signature PRat but is mostly only usable due to the limitations between 8-11. With the Aavik control seems unlimited with excellent listening at low medium and high levels. Just my thoughts. No going back for me.
I came to the Moon 340i indirectly from 252/olive250. It’s very difficult from memory to compare the two but all I can say is that I absolutely love the Moon sound. If I could afford it I would buy the 7000i tomorrow without hesitation. To my ears the 340i has all the musical involvement I got from Naim but presented in a much more refined, subtle and sophisticated way. It’s a spellbinding listen and certainly much kinder to below par recordings than my 252/250 was. Just a personal view of course.
The other thing I’d definitely want to audition if I had the cash would be the Nagra Classic Integrated. Good luck anyway - take your time, it’s a big decision, particularly when you are contemplating moving away from a tried and trusted brand.
Would second RackKit’s recommendation of the Rega Osiris. Very easy to overlook due to it being a good few years old and its relatively low price.
As you mentioned the Bryston BP 17-3 and 4B-3 i can tell you i very recently demd that exact combination against my Osiris. I was thinking the extra power would be beneficial into my PMC MB2se. But to me the Osiris was way better / much preferable .
@anon33182107. I’ve been extremely happy with my Aesthetix Mimas. It’s gotten a lot of great press. I like that it can accept optional DAC and Phono boards. Beautiful clean build quality. I use my Mimas with an Auralic Aeries G1 streamer and Chord Hugo TT2 and Chord Mscaler. I’m in the USA and those 4 pieces are about $21k, as an example just a Naim 300DR is $16k
I guess this is me stating the obvious. What you have SteveO should work very well indeed. In fact i have heard a system like that, but with a 552 and non DR driving totem mani 2 speakers. It was very good!!!
So i would try to get to the bottom of the problems with what you have already before splashing out on alternative kit. I can imagine it’s frustrating but like many things…
I would rather buy an integrated from a reputable company like Rega, long established, than some of these lesser known brands. Easier for repairs etc.
Great customer service, warranty etc. You can pick these up at great used prices too.
The reviews at the time suggested the Osiris punched above its weight too. The only negative I recall of the reviews at the time were that they were a tad polite, but then some of the reviews for the newer 250/300 were described by Paul Messenger as more polite too, compared to the olive range.
So it’s just a case of whether the sound of the Osiris would blend in with the present Naim sound . Naim and Rega have a similar raison d’etre normally when it comes to sound.
But a great integrated and good looking too. Weights a ton so great build quality and doesn’t have the dimensions of an AV amp.
Definitely a real contender if you don’t fancy black boxes that keep reproducing. It would probably be my first choice of an upgrade on say a SN3.
RackKit used an Isis with his Naim set up and presumably that wasn’t a sonic mismatch?
Without a doubt this was all true once upon a time. Not nearly so convinced now though. Buying British is no guarantee of anything and neither does it mean quite what it once did. Many supposedly British companies are owned by overseas concerns and their products are no longer actually made in the UK. As for great customer service that is largely something that only exists in the past. These days you are just as likely to find yourself dealing with people who have no real interest in you or your individual issues - you are just a customer to be processed through the system.
Wasn’t meaning to suggest that buying British only guarantees quality and an allegiance to the UK.
With long established companies like Naim and Rega you know what you are generally buying into and ease of repairs/ servicing for products that can be looked after for possibly decades.
Just my personal take on things and certainly nothing wrong whatsoever buying an Aavik, Copland or any other brand for that matter.
But this year I had my passive crossovers serviced by Naim which was done within a fortnight - and I also had brilliant help from Henry, Duncan Roberts and Steve Harris of Naim to sort out an issue on my streamer.
Also, brilliant service from Darran at ‘Naim North’ (Class A in Sheffield) who serviced my 52.
I know of no other company who look after their customers so well.
I remember when I was in my teens (that was the 1970’s!) and I had bought a Shure M75ED cartridge. I noticed that the stylus was slightly mis-aligned so I rang the British distributor and the chap I spoke to seemed most concerned and promised a replacement stylus free of charge. The very next morning not one but two replacement styli arrived in the post! That’s the sort of service that you would be extremely hard pressed to encounter today. It’s rather sad actually.
The potential move is motivated by the frustration of trying to find which box in the chain is the culprit and the sad fact that when my Preamplifier goes back next week it will be the fifth box return in 2½ years.
The quality of the sound when it’s working is not in doubt. I can stand the odd occasion of it not sounding its best but it’s not sounded right for the last 6 months and I’m tired of that.
There are enough things to worry about without fretting over the hifi.
Yes I see exactly where you are coming from. My point is that I wonder how much of this is now simply an illusion based on what these companies stood for in the past. Things change and
the reality is that there are issues and one has only to read this forum to see that. Not suggesting for one moment that foreign brands are any better in this respect. I’m afraid it’s pretty much a universal thing and perhaps reflects the state of affairs and attitudes of the world in which we now live. Once in a car dealership I actually saw staff answering the 'phone and reading from a script! As JimDog points out there are thankfully still some of the old breed around but I’m afraid these are now very much the exception rather than the rule.
I think you have been extremely patient so far. Five returns in so short a time is enough to wear anyone down. And yes your hi-fi should be a source of pleasure not worry.
When I had my LP12, 30 years ago now, I thought it sounded simply superb when set-up properly. The point is that it didn’t stay set-up properly for long. It was forever going back to my dealer to be fettled. When I got married it all became too much. I exchanged it - a straight swap for a brand new Rega Planar 3 from my dealer. He thought I was making a huge mistake. The reality was that for most of the time the Rega actually sounded far superior to the LP12. It didn’t drift off and I didn’t need to worry about it. It just worked. I vowed then that I would never give house room to a piece of hi-fi equipment that caused me any trouble. Life is too short.