That lovely PRAT

Hi-Fi Corner
103

Wow; what a thread!

PRaT, ay?

I’d like to contribute my recent observations specific to this topic as I feel they develop and support a few of the views already given in this thread…

I am fairly new to the NAIM product range after years/decades of ‘watch this space’.

Having access to a ‘lowly’ Nait XS(3) I found the first week with it a very hard adoption.
And then I adjusted my speakers to suit the equipment.
WHAT
A
DIFFERENCE;

For the entire first two hundred hours, assuming the amp was breaking in/warming up (for life), I let go the ‘slight volume imbalance’, typical of kit with analogue volume pots ‘down low on the dial’…

but it wasn’t the case; the NAIT simply was a fast little amp that revealed the imbalance in the speakers distance (from the listening position).

Having rotated six plus amps through the ‘den setup’ in the months prior… (and five more the year prior); NONE of the other amps were intolerant of the 1.5inch recession on the left speaker… (from the listening position)…

So- ten other ‘mainstream’ high quality music amplifiers did not have the ‘precision’ to show this error in my setup…

So I moved the speaker forward the appropriate ‘few centimetres’… (smidge over an inch, with the speakers nearly four metres away…)

Naims’ precision with the soundstream made a very differenet, very obvious improvement in the rendering of MUSIC.

The ability to layer instruments correctly on a 3D stage means my ears can correlate the musicianship of artists ‘in sync’ with each other.
(great as I like improv’d Jazz and the ‘fun’ of musicians ‘in the zone with each other’)

In the first four hundred hours the Nait imaged well forward of the rear wall (not a preferred trait in my equipment selections), but after many hundreds of hours (the amp was ‘new from box’), the subtle high frequency cues that revealed absolute room dimensions were also in the music, and the Naim staged WELL BEYOND THE FRONT WALL (as it should).

Not all musical/audio equipment is tuned or built with the same design goals.

Most equipment I have bought that plays the ‘spec sheet’ warfare game, seem to forget to tune for music, and output the ‘less real rendition’ of the music (flatter/less dimensionality)…

If I didn’t care about stage depth and absolute stage size OVER improtant factors like timbre/pitch etc, then I might not have noticed so much…

The Naim ‘house sound’ to me seems to be focused on recreating a stage that timing is critical to render not just the musicians in relation to each other,… but also the distance from them individually to where I enjoy them as a listener.

It has to be much much more than this, as via the Naim amplifier, the music, even ‘rooms away’ sounds cohesive and intact.

I associate this with ‘high slew rate’ amplfiiers, and admittedly the recent Naim Naits’ have been optimised on this front.

Having the ‘smaller stage’ presentation of the Nait vs the previous part (a much higher price point piece of kit), and other top tier references (throughout the decades); Naim kit seems to render the music right in the way that most associate Valve amps as ‘being more musical’. (typically a slowness of the leading edge of a bass note that might creat a visceral ‘real’ feel (and fantastic vocals!!))…

The closest I have come to ‘great valve sound’ (danish monoblocks) is the Naim Nait - ‘lowly integrated’.

I have been very happy downsizing to Naim, and the music that flows isn’t unique to Naim, certainly, but is what I find from only a few vendors in the market, none of THEM being affordable or ‘generic’/mass market products…

Tuning for musicality vs spec sheets is 90% of this battle…
Most circuit designers that I have read about in interviews regarding their ‘tuning’ is that the first version of a circuit build might be electrically better (/measure better), but lacks absolute musicality … they then ‘detune’ the perfect circuit to make it ‘sound right’.

Spec sheet warfare is the wrong way to buy hifi. -it IS emotional in our engagement and we should find what elicits the feelings we seek.

Naim tune for timing and factors of what I consider musicality, vs 'a ruler flat soundstage (no depth) and ‘spec sheet perfection’.

Muchly appreciated!!

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104

briefly
I had intended to write about how the Naits’ timing precision has required the most amount of effort to get the phase on the subwoofer in swing/sync

If I had a sub with only 90/180 switch -I’d be in trouble…

The slightest of dial adjustments making a noticable difference in meshing with the mains’ (speakers)

Being able to render weird stuff like Tori Amos’ “Datura” (song, not newstory assuming one is likely to exist…) - Datura and others on the album, ie “Suede”; an amplfier that can drive speakers to play valve like ( a little distortion or smear- but authority in rendering that ‘smear’- possibly from ‘high slew rate’) and the vocals layered lazily means every S I N G L E lyric is clearly rendered and realised as intended…

Datura and Suede are tracks I’d use, happily if noone was around, to compare and appreciate hifi systems capabilities.

Nice though

-as a bonus-

to hear the lyrics that are being sung (on Naim kit).
'smiles with

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Someone (maybe at this forum, I don’t remember) made a distinction between (i) using music to listen to your system or (ii) using your system to listen to your music. Maybe PRaT has something to do with this :blush:

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106

Alan Parsons:

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107

I suspect a lot of people have no idea about phase/timing when it comes to subs. The first mistake is often one of positioning- common advice that bass is non-directional so the sub can be put anywhere might work for providing effects in movies, but less likely to work with music - best starting point is where the main speakers are, though with some flexibility to adjust to minimise for best room response given the different effect within their specific frequency ranges. Then DSP with adjustment of phase / time delay using a tool like REW to ensure it is set correctly. I have no personal experience of setting up subs, but for anyone interested @Xanthe is one person who has expounded about this previously.

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108

Pace, rhythm and timing for me is that leading edge attack, the ability to follow the music effortlessly with a strong palpable sound being reproduced.

If I don’t hear a visceral sound I lose interest. If the sound isn’t defined in the notes I lose interest. Overall if it isn’t exciting it’s not something I can live with.

More and more I have read criticism of Naim recently especially in regard to having a so called dated product line but after having listened to many components from all types of brands I really have never understood this point of view. Naim achieves what I believe many other brands fail at.

Ever since my first move away from Naim I’ve been able to achieve more detail or a more ethereal sound signature than that of Naim. However I’ve always found myself getting bored of my system. Only Naim amplification has held my attention.

I’ll admit Naim has a relatively noisier sound signature than a few alternatives but that’s never bothered me. MY DAC for instance is a jewel in my setup but is it super quiet? Absolutely not. Any high gain tube design will pick up noise in the tubes but what it achieves is a striking, lifelike sound that makes other DACs I’ve heard sound lifeless in comparison.

At the end of the day my goal has always been to be thrilled by my hifi so this prat thing is the only way to do it me thinks.

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109

When I first heard a Naim system, I thought to myself, this is what real music sounds like.
I had owned Denon and Yamaha AV receivers, as well as a NAD integrated. I was pleasantly surprised when I first heard Naim (a 5i integrated amp) because it sounded like real music, and not a reproduction.

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110

Yeah but no but yeah but no but

111

Very similar experience with the (5i integrated). Love at first listen. However it was quickly replaced by a XS2. Same ‘PRAT’ but with some refinement.

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I am sure some have seen the threads about the hifi show that just went by. Well a certain room there certain showed how its done.
By far the best thing i have ever heard.

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Still, the descriptions of PRaT seem to focus on excellent reproduction of music, with various emphases.
Seems like PRaT is merely a code for this.
Which is ok.

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JV: The reason I started Naim Audio was that I wanted a system upon which I could listen to and enjoy music. When I was recording my musician friends at the start of the seventies, I could not understand why the tapes I had made never sounded like the people playing or their instruments. The tapes, I’ve later proved, were OK, it was the replay chain -the amplifiers and speakers – that was inadequate. So I tried to sort it out. I liked the result and so did other people who heard what I’d done. That’s how we got into making things for other people.

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…and this aim makes complete sense, that is, to make recorded music sound good. It’s no more complicated than that, is not exclusive to Naim and requires that all of what makes reproduced music sound good is addressed.

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Although the recording and mastering of some live concerts varies hugely (with seemingly often vocal microphones absolutely murdered) - there are certain concerts - especially older recordings recorded directly onto mag tape with minimal if any mic compression and eq - and then processed with compressors and EQ back in the production studio that can truly excel,

The Johnny Cash prison recordings excel, especially Folsom Prison. Yes the late 60s mimalistic recording setup and mics, compression tech (likely chained LA-2A valve compressors which sound gorgeous in an organic way) in production provides that crunchy sound to the vocals etc - allow the atmosphere to ooze out in a non exaggerated or formulaic way. With live concerts, for me, of contemporary music - it’s not so much the interplay between musicians - it’s the interplay between audience and musicians/artistes that can provide that magical audio experience.

And yes a good hifi system with great balance, details and timing is essential to bring this out if of course the recording and production are up to it
.
Another exceptional live recording is Sandy Denny at the Paris Theatre in London singing the Northstar Grassman and the Ravens - on a great system the hairs on the back of your neck involuntarily raise.
Now what is interesting neither of these are technically top flight audio quality recordings - but both are recorded onto mag tape and quite minimalistic processing and offer superb presence and timing. (remember which is NOT musical timing)

I use these sort of recordings to validate any setup with any equipment - absolutely not specific to Naim, but good Naim setups in my experience tend to do the business… I find its often the speakers/headphones that are the crucial link here.

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That comes across very strongly in this recording, especially in the amusing audience response to the prison wardens introduction to this concert. :musical_note:

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And the Atmosphere of this excellent concert:

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I do not use any recordings I really enjoy to test systems as I do not want to overplay them.

I often use this track to test system changes:

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Fair enough - I guess I am not testing hifi systems all the time so it works for me … but yes if all the time I can see how it could make favourite recordings drag

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The concept of overplaying something I like has never occurred to my - though I suppose for professional hifi reviewers it might.

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Just giving it a listen now. Definitely one for the favourites list :+1:

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:+1::loud_sound::drum::dart: