The Coronation

Are you a bell ringer?

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I doubt anyone would invent a monarchy from scratch in 2023, but the UK is full of things you could say that about.

Would I rather have a hereditary constitutional monarch without any real political power as a head of state, or some has-been politician who effectively bribed and schmoozed his way into the job sucking up my taxes living in some sort of ‘People’s Palace’? The former, thank you. It’s not perfect, but I fail to see how the alternative would make us any more free or happy.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that many French and Americans - who live in two of the oldest and most successful republics in the world and are rightly proud to do so - seem to have a particular fascination and respect for our royal family, even though (I presume) they wouldn’t choose to go back down that road themselves.

I was perfectly happy to swear allegiance to the monarch when I joined the Royal Navy late in the last century and don’t think I would have felt enormously better about swearing allegiance to an abstract, such as ‘the flag’ or ‘the country’. Intellectually, given what politicians sometimes get up to, swearing allegiance to a non-political monarch was a lot easier to do than swearing allegiance to a government, however democratically elected it might have been.

I’ll be watching the coronation tomorrow. No idea whether I’ll bother with the allegiance of the people - sounds a bit in questionable taste to me, despite everything I’ve said above, not to mention a bit odd to mumble it in one’s sitting room in front of the telly. Interestingly, a Dimbleby who’s a friend of the King was on the radio this morning saying much the same thing, plus that he couldn’t believe Charles was happy with the idea either - very much not his style.

Mark

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I’ll watch it as it will be the only time I am likely to see a king crowned

Otherwise my thoughts are that Naim do not want politics discussed …

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Sorry I deleted my previous post as I was in a hurry and didn’t give it too much thought.

To answer your post re invite/ask I think you’re splitting hairs. I’ve been asked to a wedding or I’ve been invited - both mean the same thing to me.

I have no doubt the Royal family add value and tradition to you as a Brit but as an Australian I’m sorry I just don’t feel the same. They will always have my respect but they’re just not that relevant to a modern Australia.

A simple example, “my” king and I are at an England v Australia game who do you really think he’s going to support.

I want a head of state that’s on my team.

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…long live the classic, statement, unitis and the new classics :pray::saluting_face::sunglasses:

I mostly agree with what you say. The main issue I have here is with the hereditary bit, both the Netherlands and the UK have been lucky to have decent monarchs for at least the last few generations, but what if we get one that isn’t? It will be hard to get rid of them without getting rid of the whole institution.

I shall watch a little for the historical significance but I am ambivalent/uncomfortable about parts of the ceremony.

I find the religious elements of the ceremony pretty anachronistic. Seems to me the monarchy is caught in an awkward hinterland between the historical divinity of the Crown and its role as Anglican head and a modern society where less than 1% attend Anglican Sunday Service. A truly radical modern Coronation ceremony could have looked very different, with a nod to history and pageant but a very different flavour. The current ceremony, despite all the emphasis on tradition is actually very much a mish mash and has evolved with every monarch so it seems an opportunity lost. What is planned feels to me more about a televisual event than of great resonance.

I wonder if the Coronation may not actually improve the status of the Monarchy here, it feels more divisive than anything. I’ll be happy when they get back to doing what they do well; service to the nation, shaking hands and opening hospitals etc.

As for the allegiance bit, well I have a role where I swore allegiance to the Crown that was for me important, because it enshrines the clear independence of servants of the Crown vs those of the State (Government). In the Coronation service I think the King should probably be swearing his allegiance to his subjects, albeit that is a word I don’t much like either!

Bruce

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Did you mean you’re not British, rather than not English?

(Or German/Greek/Norman/Roman/Viking)

I was surprised when this “invitation” came to light. It was Mrs D who mentioned it to me and she thought we were all being “told” . Yikes !!! I don’t think this is such a good move! It’s potentially divisive.

My understanding is that the ceremony will incorporate an “opportunity” for those who so wish. Much as I support the Monarchy, I will not be availing myself of this opportunity. My view is that the Monarchy are primarily the UK’s apolitical “meeters and greeters”

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Don doesn’t matter how it’s dressed to me I loved the Queen and would never have moved while she was around. I just don’t feel that connected to Charles. No disrespect intended it as I’ve said earlier their just not relevant to me.

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Agree to this. The last few of these sort of things have seen us all get together in our small street. Good to speak to people. We have about 4 different nationalities represented so I doubt there will be any pledging.

As a New Zealander I retain a great fondness towards the monarchy and wish Charles well. The commonwealth people’s sacrificed an enormous amount in the world wars to the king and country. My uncle was in the RNZAF and despite shooting down some Junkers 88s he was badly injured when his mosquito crashed. Many thousands of commonwealth servicemen were killed and injured fighting facism. and in this modern complicated world the unifying notion of king and country remains. We are enormously grateful for British concept of fair play and Charles , I am sure is acutely aware of this and despite all his foibles and imperfections I wish him well.

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Interesting thoughts coming out of this. I’ll be watching because I like the pageantry and the sense of history associated with it all. This connection with the past is valuable, although it does not define who we are as a nation it does provide a context. A heavily modernised ceremony would sever the links to the past, but I think what attempts to make it more relevant to today are welcome.

The religious ceremony is important to those who believe; and I think that this should be respected even if people are atheists or agnostic or another religion or belief system. I suppose I want to be tolerant of others’s views whilst acknowledging the historical significance of the whole ceremony.

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I bet you eat quiche, too.

Not that horrible Coronation Quiche - Coronation Chicken for me please!

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Totally agree

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Yes, no politics here. Thanks. More general discussion of the monarchy does unfortunately step into politics by virtue (or otherwise) of it being a constitutional monarchy, with monarch as head of state of not just this country but a number of others too, albeit with no political power, but plenty of symbolism.

Whatever your feelings may be about this, I would suggest you try to just enjoy what is undoubtedly a fascinating and quite unique (bizarre?) ritual, or perhaps just enjoy the company of friends and family on the day.

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On the subject of which time to share Nick Cave and his delightfully honest viewpoint; and he is invited! I love his comment about the young Nick Cave…

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I’m Welsh but also consider myself British and perhaps a bit traditional/resistant to change.

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got early train tickets from norwich to london and will head to one of the parks and get in the atmosphere, hopefully rian not as bad as predicted and the flypast can go ahead.

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