The future of Naim streamers

I might not go quite so far, but I think the way we interact with existing favourite music, owned media music, leased music and yet to be discovered new music, is a really important point.

Functionally I think the current streamers are fine, they have a well isolated network endpoint, with sufficiently adaptable computing resources, effectively coupled to a DAC. I doubt if that model will change dramatically, even if medium term DAC developments drive replacement of the current streamer range at some point.

The transformations I think will come in the apps we use to explore music, and as long as the compute part of the Naim streamers is sufficiently flexible, and the Naim software team effective at supporting appropriate interfaces to them, then that’s where I think the innovation/change will mostly come from.

Making folders, tagging, metadata handling etc comfortable for the mass market from a music consumption point of view is where the developments will come from. There’s an interesting question where the interface is drawn, but perhaps a networked DAC, with simple enough UI, together with flexibility to support the Roons of this world, means the current Naim streamer model/structure will be mostly driven by DAC improvements for gen 3

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I now use a Lumin streamer, which has its own App. I have owned 4 different Naim streamers and also have a subscription to Roon and Tidal.
The fact that the Lumin allows me to use Tidal connect directly from the Tidal App is a big plus.
I have been playing the Lumin P1 all three ways over the last week, while breaking the streamer in.
I always liked the Naim App, to me it is easier to use than the Lumin, probably because I am new to the Lumin App, so have not figured how to use it properly yet.
Roon is better than all of them for ease of use and features.
Sound wise, I have not noticed much difference in any of them really.
I have 2,200 of my own CD’s ripped that I hardly ever listen to now. Like a few have stated, Roon radio, or my daily discovery on Tidal are awesome, I have discovered a whole new world of music.
I mean how many times do I want to listen to my many copies of Stairway to heaven in my lifetime?

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Except there will be many people who have imperfect metadata and good filing systems, so what would be the problem in providing good customer service by facilitating it? I know that with Audirvana many people requested it, but the developer simply doesn’t understand the problem (I guess he is yound, and doesn’t have experience of the issue).

I don’t understand the problem either. Every album that is imported into Roon should be identified, either through file tags or by Roon’s automatic lookup. If Roon does not find the correct identification automatically, the user can do so.

Importing stuff without identifying it would be poor practice and circumvents the whole point of Roon. I don’t, personally, see the point in adding a feature that is not necessary if Roon is used as intended. I wouldn’t oppose it either, I just don’t see the point. In any case, the Roon guys have decided that they won’t spend time on it, so that’s that. It’s their decision. I do understand their being wary of opening a can of worms, such large deviations from a design concept always have costs, not all necessary foreseeable. And like I said, nobody prevents the user from going to look for an album in the folder tree with the file manager.

And if a older structure with partially untagged files is a person’s generally preferred way of finding stuff, there are other tools that are suited to that. There is no need to turn Roon into something it is not. I guess that’s the larger lesson for the future of Naim streamers, everyone has their preferences and it is good to enable access for users in several different ways. It’s just like with other aspects of computer UIs, everyone has preferences for their interface.

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I also fail to understand your problem. Btw, Roon allows you to sort tracks by file location.

In my case not preferred as such, just what it is with a mammoth task to change. If Roon’s developers don’t care to accommodate people in that position it is their loss - if when I trialled it it had seen all my files and allowed browsing by folder, and matched Audirvana for sound quality (I didn’t try comparing the latter), then I may well have decided it was worth the money, the unwanted features like Roon Radio being possible to turn off.

You fail to understand that if someone has a large number of albums with missing, incomplete or incorrect metadata, such that some software (including Roon) doesn’t even seem to find them, it is a right PITA to try to fix that metadata, very time consuming and likely to make them lose the will to live?

What I fail to understand is why someone with such poor (missing, incomplete or incorrect) metadata continuously complains about Roon on so many threads 2-3 years after he has trialled it.

It’s like having several engine parts sitting in your garage and complaining about Ford when they don’t work when you throw them into a Focus bonnet.

My metadata is missing incomplete and incorrect and Roon can’t sort it! Give us a break.

.sjb

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I feel your pain! I did have the same issue before I subscribed to Roon and I know it is extremely annoying. IIRC, Roon fixed/mitigated this issue for me (or maybe at least 90 % of the problem), now I just happily browse my local library, thinking how I can manage my local storage without Roon.

I am not complaining about Roon. I simply responded to a post asking why would you wish to have a folder search and another expressing a lack of understanding of same. That led to an exchange of thoughts by a few posters around the subject, with my responses simply trying to clarify a position in which some of us find ourselves - and I only mentioned Roon in response to others suggesting it might be a solution. I would think this particular side discussion has by now probably now run its course in this thread which is supposed to be about Naim streamers not Roon!

Being a very early adopter of Roon I’m probably over sensitive but for someone who I would consider to be one of the main influencers on this forum you do post frequently in Roon threads all based on one trial a few years ago using missing incomplete and incorrect metadata.

.sjb

I understand the annoyance, but if you had started with Roon all along, this would never have happened :slight_smile: I guess it’s a use case that has several possible solutions, one being changes in Roon so that it does not need metadata but can use a folder view, another being fixing the metadata in some way. It causes work and complications for someone, and IMHO it’s a reasonable choice for Roon to stick to their design. All that Roon needs are artists and album titles, most of the rest it would figure out itself.

So…to summarize!

Hardware pretty good and as far as we can tell reasonably future proof. A2s and MQA aside, and thats a whole different thread.

Naim software also pretty good and its also great that those that choose to use 3rd party software like roon can. Well done Naim.

Nobody is moaning about SQ on streamers compared to this or that physical format any longer.

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When i listen to music, I try to be absorbed by it, leave my brain for a while and stop thinking. The Naim app or Mconnect ( used by a lot of other brands) is all I need. I don’t need to have suggestions, read information, or classify my albums by genre, dates, or even favourites. I don’t need Roon . I neither stream online.
But it’s me . If an App sounds better but have less functionalities, I will always choose the sound.
When not listening, I read reviews on albums, search information and credits, go to Discogs or Allmusic, and discovering using YouTube.
So for me I am more interested by the evolution of streamers, dacs and servers in relation to better sound quality. I don’t really care of the App .

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For me, the app isn’t to be used while listening to the music, it’s there to help me find the music I want and then put down while listening. It’s like the difference of having a nicely designed magazine. Or, one that is plain text single column.

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To be honest, same here. I was responding to where I thought the third generation of Naim streamers would go, and I think that will be driven by DAC developments. I do think how music is, for want of a better word, curated, is the area that will see most change, and assuming Naim put enough computing horsepower into the NP800 to cope, then I think they’ll be fine. Plus their kit is still exceedingly well made and sounds pretty good :slight_smile:

One of the nicest things about joining this forum a year or so ago is the massive broadening of my own musical tastes. I was listening to the radio last night, there was a review of Africa Oye - a festival of music. Two pieces of music were played, both were great. I was listening to the radio live, so had to capture the names of the acts in a note app. I then looked them up on Qobuz, and added them to my favourites. I then did a bit of reading about their history, on Wikipedia, and then cross referenced back to Qobuz to find their album history. I’d like to find a few other examples of similar music, Qobuz isn’t great at that, so I stopped there. I do have two new albums on my favourites list, but could have had a couple more I’m sure. Admittedly I can only listen to so much music, and I barely managed to listen to both all the way through last night, but the ability to explore and follow a musical thread, artist, genre, date, who knows what drives threads of musical discovery, is what I’d like to see get better. I’m not sure Naim is the company to do that, but I’m very happy if their streamers are what I use to listen to the result.

Santrofi - Ghanaian Highlife, really fun
Oumou Sangare - an amazing Malian singer, “The Songbird of Wassoulou”

Both worth a listen :slight_smile:

[edit, somebody is going to point out I’d probably love Roon, based on the above, please, I need all my spare cash for a TT upgrade, so could you wait a couple months before pointing it out please :wink: ]

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For me the App makes or breaks the usability and streaming experience, it’s absolutely critical. Luckily, in my experience, the Naim app is very good indeed, even brilliant.

Where I see Naim streamers gradually falling short as time goes by is their DACs, in absolute SQ may be more evident in the ND5XS2 and NDX2, and I think it shows if you look at evolving choices and combinations that people are using more commonly, and with the Naim streaming DACs remaining to be used as a streamer/digital source only.

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I agree. I can’t believe how much better my nee dCS Rossini/Vivaldi combination is, compared to my old ND555/555PSDR. It is light years ahead, though admittedly is more expensive. NAIM need to up their game.

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With that Naim set up it doesn’t surprise me Andy.

image2805×1585 1.16 MB

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That set-up is now long gone, thankfully. Many thanks for your input though - your opinion is very important to me :rofl: