The Grand Cafe

Style guides have nothing to do with dumbing down language. They are intended to create consistency by imposing discipline on writers and editors, and setting expectations on behalf of readers.

They also change frequently to reflect the fact that English is a dynamic language, in which meanings shift over time, new words are introduced, old ones fall by the wayside, etc. You shouldn’t be seeing “whilst” or “amongst” anymore, but you will see, at least for a few more years, “selfie” and “cancel culture.”

Publications do, of course, gear the level of their language to their expected audience. For example, the Guardian assumes the average age of its readers is 14; for The Sun it’s 8. The comprehension level of Economist readers is higher (its style guide is a thing of beauty, by the way). In my experience, editing for The Sun can be way more challenging.

Do you not think that they influence people’s use of language?

If only. We would all communicate much more effectively if that were so.

And on that note, I think I have taken up too much of this thread with this topic.

I’m not so sure. I often find, when reading things in newspapers and online, that I am unsure exactly what they are saying, because their use of English can be quite poor.

OK, one more post on this topic then let’s get back to Marmite, interior decorating and the wonderful weirdness of life in Oz, NZ and beyond.

Your comments about poor use of English might be because people aren’t following their style guides correctly (human error, and all that). Also, and this is a biggie, editors are a vanishing breed. And finally: If you’ve ever worked on a daily publication with brutal deadlines and dark overlords cracking bullwhips, you will be aware of the potential for the endless, new and creative ways to screw things up.

English, doesn’t need style guides to be able to understand, it just needs to be used properly. Style guides are for house consistency. (In in the case of a style guide that a UK politician sought to introduce last year in the Ministry he headed, house consistency appeared to favour Dickensian times…)

I think you are simply confused about the role of a newspaper’s style guide.

It’s there for the obedience of writers and the whip of that dying breed called editors.

The rest of society have no obligation whatsoever to recognise or conform to any particular style guide.

We just use proper English, local variations and are free to discuss and/or change our own styles as we wish. A bit like evolution perhaps.

If somebody writes something that is unclear, we just ask for clarification or elaboration.

Ps. IB jumped in whilst I was responding.

Sorry! Happens to me sometimes as well!

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There is its role - and possibly quite different from its effect. If most of what a person reads is written with 7 or 8 year olds as it target, then how are they going to extend their language skills?

image

Nice, huh!

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Yours?

As a kid… c. 9 years to 13 years I took piano lessons. After 4 years I decided playing outside etc… was more fun and chucked it in; it got to an hour a day practice. Everyone told me I’d regret it in later years… :frowning: Yep they were right… gosh I wish I’d kept it up :frowning:

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Not yet. We currently have the upright version Schimmel 130t.

All kids play sometimes it is a bit noisy here.

That’s a bit unfortunate I never had the opportunity for music lessons of any type. Even if I had I’d probably still just played in the street with the other kids.

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They’re come a time when you’ll miss that noise, problem don’t think so right now though.

Popped round to a mates today and he re-soldered one of my NAC-A5 plugs. The Nova was sounding off and I remember that one of the pins was loose when I had undid it when trying a speaker wire connection to the sub. Now that it’s fixed, it sounds way better with the soundstage and imaging back on form.

He’s serviced his Linn LP12 and it’s sounding quite a bit nicer than his Dennifrips DAC Tidal streaming.

It’s Saturday, so we sneaked a few cheeky snifters in too.

Is that like a few sneaky but deadlys. :grin::grin:

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Mums the word. Finished with a double shot coffee…

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I’ve got the in-laws here they’re watching Midsummer Murders or some other old BBC thingy. I’m hiding downstairs with a gin and tonic or 2.

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I’ve run out of coffee, need to go to the shop. Big issue getting painful.

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My goodness what are you doing with your copy of the Big Issue to cause you pain?

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