Or even two frames, to put some distance between the NAC and ND and those nasty power supplies
My rack is a compromise, and an efficient protection against my young daughter’s little hands
Or even two frames, to put some distance between the NAC and ND and those nasty power supplies
My rack is a compromise, and an efficient protection against my young daughter’s little hands
Churches - and concert halls, for that matter - sound very different empty than with a full house. Nothing absorbs sound and breaks echoes more efficiently than 800 human beings with their winter coats on.
The thing is, they also take their cell phones with them…
I agree with Bart. A heavily damped room sucks the liveliness out of music. We never hear live music in an anechoic chamber, and would probably be bored by it if we did. A lot of the experience of music is the interactions with the environment.
Anechoic chamber are great for speaker design, but that’s not where you want to hear music, at least I don’t.
I think there is some confusion here.
Live music and recorded music are two different things.
Let’s illustrate that with an example.
Imagine a solo violinist playing Bach’s Partitas in a nice concert hall or a nice little church.
The reverberation and all the wall reflections are part of the performance, and are obviously very pleasant.
Imagine that nice performance being recorded.
Now we play that recording on a stereo system.
The speakers will reproduce the recorded music (the violin performance in the concert hall or church). And that’s what we wish to hear: the violinist in that specific environment with that nice reverberation.
Now imagine that recording flowing out of the speakers, bouncing all over the room and producing its own echoes.
See my point?
I’m not stating that we should listen to recorded music in an anechoic chamber (it doesn’t make sense…)
I’m just saying that the listening room is always a problem (in terms of music reproduction)
And yet, heavily damped rooms still don’t sound very music IMO. They sound dead and lifeless. I accept a bit of extra distortion or reflections for a better experience engaging with the music. I suppose if one wants to use music to listen to their system that’s more important, I like to listen to music.
When I go to the symphony hall or the local jazz venue and close my eyes, it is not unlike the experience I get listening at home.
Even if they do not think that way they are used to performing in rooms or concert halls with influences on how they sound. If they mostly performed in anechoic chambers I think they would sound very different.
If you are considering the mastering room I think you are missing my point. The effects of the mastering room are not fed into the recording. My point is that the recording of a performance in a studio, of an acoustic guitarist sitting in a sound proof highly absorbent both for instance, will not include any significant room information. When I play that recording at home I would like for it to be as close as possible to having that guitarist sit 3-4 m in front of me in my living room with all the effects my room has on that performance.
On the other hand, if I listen to a live recording, I would like to be ’transported’ to the concert venue, hear all the effects of the venues acoustics and not any effects of my room.
Best regards
Hans
Hi Thomas,
I believe a lot of audiophiles share your view that the objective of a good hifi-system is to reproduce as closely as possibly the sound heard in the mastering room. I do not share this view (if I did I would buy the same amps and speakers used in recording studios).
For me personally the objective is either to create an illusion of having the performance take place in my room (primarily studio recordings) or of being transported to the performance (live recordings). In the first case I do not want any room information in the recording but I do want the effect of my room to influence the sound. For live recordings it is vice versa. We live in a world of compromise.
I think the objective of recording and mastering engineers and hifi products should be to get us as close to this as possible. I see no attraction in creating an illusion of sitting in a mastering studio.
Best regards
Hans
That’s not quite the point. If they are recorded in those clubs, capturing the acoustics of the venue, then playing that back in your room adding extra echoes, some possibly shorter time than the venue, then the sound will be muddled, and not like the live event even if it is “exciting” be ause it has more “presence”. But if recorded by close miking, capturing very little of the venue acoustics, and with no reverb added in the recording or mixing process then it will sound very dry, or dead if you prefer, at home unless played in an acoustically bright room. Only in the latter case will it really sound closer to the original in an bare untreated room, even if you do personally prefer the effect with the first one in an untreated room.
It’s not my point either. I was not talking about recording or mastering…
Just wanted to say that the acoustics of these clubs or churches were very good and natural. If someone wanted to put a lot of damping panels in these clubs or churches, the real live sound would disappear.
I am on the minimum room treatment side position. It’s necessary only on critical places, often corners. But covering all the walls and roof with acoustic and not natural materials is not my cup of tea. The sound is too controlled.
I fully agree! But the fact that the live performance sounds good like that has no bearing on hone replay, because home replay is of the recorded sound which may include the room ambience, whether a live performance, or added in the studio.
Yes, I agree too. Speakers have interactions with a room, so it’s not like real instruments or voices. But the impression of a natural sound is my object. I don’t feel it in overdamped rooms.
Never really understood why having the electronics between the speakers was such a detriment as compared to over to one side of one speaker. Is there a plausible explanation?
I put my record shelves between and behind my speakers. That acts as a great diffuser for refections on the front wall.
Hi Hans,
I’m with you on this. Everything is a compromise. I am going to try some room treatment (which will be a big compromise re domestic layout) but am expecting this to create benefits and perhaps cause other issues. Some of the room treatment videos on YouTube are farcical IMV - like walking through a woodland!..Not yours @Thomas !
I always use the example of live bands in pus or small-ish venues. Upfront near the band the noise is visceral, percussion can ring, bass can be fat and some instruments can be sibilant at their top-end to my ear. Standing many metres back, the sound is much more refined - smoother, perhaps more together, the bass has been filtered and absorbed by the environment and other bodies in the room.
It really all depends on how you like your tea & coffee - I like to be upfront.
When I play Who’s Next, if the room isn’t rocking, I don’t think the volume is turned up enough
I’ve heard many systems in domestic environments and been to several recording studios and it’s amazing how different things sound.
I do accept that if you have a dedicated room, then room treatment is the way to go and can render some material gains in SQ for relative small monies. But I have yet to hear a room/system which will play all genres of music to my taste - as people customise the sound replay to their own liking.
Yep!
Two or three people back, dead centre for small venues. Somewhat further back for large stages, orchestras etc.
Therein lies the rub! As l like rock heavy & prog, opera, and classical from dramatic orchestral through to chamber and solo piano, but dislike jazz, pop, soul, I find a neutral sound works best, and reducing room interactions highly desirable. Who’s Next wound up doesn’t need a lively domestic room to sound pretty much like the real thing, it just needs decent full-range speakers and winding up to realistic volume!
Dear Thomas,
Thanks for posting this and starting the thread. I found the video valuable and have signed up with Jelco for more info. I am building a new room this spring and am keen to get some advice on how to make sure it will work well as a listening room. I also hope to get some help with set-up, not really an expertise I posess.
Best regards
Hans
Have you signed up with jesco for his home made bass trap trial?
Yes I have.
Hans
I have a very compromised room, high pitched ceiling, open double height void at one end and lots of beams, today I ran a test track (calibration check on Tidal) and the results were worrying, if I pan to the left speaker only there’s lots of low end but weird nodes all over the room - it’s nearest the void, if I pan right only there’s hardly any bass at all, I’ve swopped speaker cables and amp outputs etc to rule out cable or source issues and no change. Not much I can do about it unfortunately but wondering would standmounters be less problematic
Can you post a picture? It would help