My point is that you don’t need, in all cases and rooms, a heavily damped room with a lot of acoustic treatment to have an optimal sound.
I have never pointed that room treatment is not my thing. I have an acoustic panel, very heavy carpets, isolated speakers from the ground, and furnitures in the corners.
However I think your room is too much treated. It’s my feeling, perhaps I am wrong. It’s an open forum, we can share your ideas. But as you wrote, if I was completely not interested by acoustic treatment, I would not post here.
I am personally interested in diffusers between speakers. Will investigate.
Interesting. I don’t remember having you sitting in my living room 
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I think that’s a little unfair to @frenchrooster.
He/she makes a relevant point. I have a modest room with a +12db bass peak between 40-50Hz at the listening position. It’s not practical for me to move speakers or listening position.
I’ve learned it is nigh impossible to treat a 45Hz bass peak. You would have to install enormous amounts acoustic treatment that is simply not practical in a domestic situation.
It would not be sensible for me to buy full range speakers unless I can live with the exaggerated bass. Instead, I found limited range standmount speakers so the bass energy between 40-50Hz is not overly exaggerated. Harbeth 30.1 was that speaker, they sound beautiful and work beautifully in my room. I do have some acoustic treatment (Gik art panels) to treat early reflections but a layman would just think they are artwork.
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This is what I was getting about 9-11db gain from 30Hz to around 100Hz. I have rejigged a bit, put some small bass traps in some corners where I can get away with it not looking horrid and it’s reduced some of it but still get boomy around 30-50hz. I have been using Roons DSP with convolution filter created by Home Audio Fidelity and this has been a revelation and made it all go away. But as I can’t use it for my Analogue side I am likely to look at changing to smaller speakers to bring it into check.
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Well, the thread is about room treatment; correcting acoustic issues inherent to every room. FR stated, several times, that none or light treatment is the way to go. It’s his opinion, and that’s fine.
But there is a line between sharing an opinion and stating it is best and using Naim’s listening room as a confirmation/validation (which is irrelevant considering that, apparently, he didn’t visit Naim’s listening room).
Absolutely.
Absorbing low frequencies is indeed very difficult, almost impossible for frequencies under 50 Hz.
In your particular case, a solution would be to use software room correction. Roon does provide something very interesting. If you use Roon, it might be of some help :
It is indeed a wise choice.
Treating first reflection points helps a lot: better stereo image, enhances precision and details, and makes the listening experience less fatiguing.
I have quite the same approach regarding speakers and treatment. I recently adjusted a little bit the back-wall treatment for my new speakers.
Perhaps, and here you may be right, I was probably a bit too insistent with my point of view. However I wanted to create reactions from members you share or don’t share this position.
As for your room, I said also that I may be wrong. However the rooms where I heard some systems where the acoustic treatment was heavy, with a lot of bass traps and acoustic panels on all walls, was indeed non fatiguing, soft, and easy on the ears. But some fundamental life of the music was gone.
I have not been in your room indeed, but read all the panels you have
- 9 x : Vicoustic Multifuser Wood 64 White
- 2 x : Vicoustic Multifuser DC2 white
- 26 x : Vicoustic Cinema Round Premium
- 11 x : GIK Monster Bass Traps (custom sized)
- 4 x : Vicoustic Super Bass Extrem
It’s Really a very HEAVY acoustic treatment.
4 uses of a “possibly” almost makes an apology!
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I use modified Spendor SP2s for the same reason, the peak in my room was +20db @ 43Hz, even with the Spendors I still have to use a large amount of bass traps, I also use a sub fed through a DSP unit that flattens out the response of the sub (it’s -12db at 43Hz) as even with the bass traps, limited response from the main speakers and the sub turned off there’s still a +4db peak @ 43Hz!
Using a combination of speakers that you like, that don’t cause too many problems combined with acoustic treatment, will always be more satisfying than speakers you love but which just don’t work at all well in the room, or speakers that you hate which are a perfect match for the room!
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The more satisfaying I would say.
It’s not impossible.
The problem is that many manufacturers sell large blocks of “acoustic” (i.e. open cell) foam as bass traps telling people to put then in the room corners. This approach is near useless at any frequency below about 150Hz as open cell foam is a flow mode absorber - i.e. it removes energy from air that’s trying to flow through it.
The real answer to damping low frequencies is to use pressure mode absorbers - i.e. things that removes energy from pressure variances that impinge on it’s surface. These can easily operate down to 30Hz while still remaining under 200mm thick (i.e. they can be about the same size and shape as bookcases and sit in the corners of the room)
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Good point Mike. I was too polite you think ?
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Hi FR.
I will come back to the photo, before you start accusing me of repeating myself 
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I can’t see the point of drawing up Thomas’ shopping list and make conclusions as to how his room sounds based on the quantity of treatment, which has gone into the room. We know nothing about size or properties/ lay out of said room, and I would feel confident, that Thomas indeed has done his leg work before putting a seemingly very expensive order in with what is required. I have myself been ordering absorbers/ diffusers more piecemeal, as I was learning, what / how much effect they had. As in my case, where the only possible place for my speakers to live ended up in front of the heavy glass doors ( bifolds) at a front baffle distance of 160 cms. It became apparent that due to low frequency energy produced by the Facts the bifolds were slightly acting as a membrane themselves ie happily playing along at around 60 Hz or thereabouts. To resolve the this issue took 100 kg of absorption alone behind and immediately on the side of the speakers. This exercise however killed only unwanted frequency lift under 100Hz. This now enabled me to look at the reflection issues in the room and lone behold all frequencies in the midrange, top end were now breathing with a previously unheard sense of clarity and detail. Finally I was hearing my speakers’ truthful ability delivering the music as intended.
When it comes to the diffusion issues I treated 1st reflection points partly with range limited absorbers ( GIK Impression Series ). My first reflection points are actually partly broken up by a door way one side (I leave door 4 inches open for best result when listening), and as shown in the photo the Naim Fraim- racks somewhat break up 1st reflection on the left hand side.
As you will notice in the photo I have mounted a QRD- diffuser just next to my listening position and equally one the other side breaking up a prevalent reflection I had in a corner between the wall and an old lovely dresser from my Grandparents home ( 100 years old and not going anywhere). The beauty of QRD diffusers often described as true diffusion is that they are designed based on a mathematical sequence of root wells, which specify the exact frequencies they are diffusing ( rougly 500-5000Hz) and in this case being vertically mounted, they diffuse in a horizontal plane. You need to sit more than 5 feet away from them to enjoy their effect- they are brilliant in as much, as there is ZERO loss of signal amplitude. It is my plan to move the sculpture showing out of the room ( need 3 strong men to lift) and mount another prime 7 QRD diffuser next to the existing one. They simple tidy reflections up and miraculously make the room sound bigger.
What I am essentially trying to point out is, that in the process of reducing excessive bass, it is perfectly possible to keep the overall tonal character of the room very much ‘ Alive and kicking’ 
.
It is the best thing I have ever done entertaining this mad hobby for more than 4 decades FULL STOP. ATB Peter
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I don’t know if that sculpture there, of that hard, reflective material, could ever neutralize the diffuser on its left. Have you thought about it…? Maybe you should remove it from that area…, 
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It looks marvelous Peter! Well done. It looks anyway as anechoic chamber and all your walls are not covered by panels.
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Go on Newcomer, lend me a hand 
ATB Peter
( it will move promise)
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But, Peter, I’m just trying to lend you a hand, while I enjoy an exceptionally balanced sound around here…
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Don’t forget that, should you not like the look of diffusers, you can always cover them in an acoustically transparent fabric.
I’ve started out like this getting advice from my dealer. Found the combined diffusers/absorbers to work fine. The basstraps in the corner are from Sounds of science and I’d probably need more of them since I have some reverberation or echoing going on down there. Side reflections are handeled by velvet curtain. Don’t know how effective this is, but it’s better than without them. First reflections from the floor are supposedly being taken care of by two sheap skins. Doesn’t really make much of a difference but they’re cozy. We measured with rew before but haven’t done so after. It sounds a lot better after room treatment. I think I might need another row of vicoustic panels between the ones hanging there and the basstraps. And then the ceiling is getting something at first reflection point. I guess the same vicoustic or the kind that only diffuses.
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Looks great Lucifer Enjoy Peter
…and once you start, it does become a little bit addictive as you incrementally hear the difference ATB Peter
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