The Listening Room Reality

I think he will add some new very soon :star_struck::star_struck:

Well, I haven’t tried, but to me music without full bass simply isn’t hearing the music in full, and very unsatisfying…

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If the bass is overwhelmed and hides some parts of the music, it’s not natural. And if the room is overdamped to allow such speakers in a little room, I personally don’t like it too. But other can like.

@Innocent_Bystander
That’s why I use main speakers with limited bass response and a sub with a dsp filter so as not to excite the room resonances. Quite simple really.

@frenchrooster
The answer to that is also quite simple really: frequency selective damping - only add damping in the frequency range where it’s needed.

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Yes I agree. Use some damping for the frequency where is needed. But if you use speakers which give really too much bass for a little room, you will have to overdamp your room. And unfortunately it has not only an effect on the bass, but the overall sound.
Fortunately, with your Spendor bookshelves, you will never have full range bass, so no need to overdamp.
A certain balance has to be found with the right speakers in a particular room and adaptation of damping.
My personal experience, but other can have another opinion of course.

‘the Scopus Tuned Bass Trap has a broad absorption frequency range from 35Hz to 125Hz. Scopus Tuned Bass Traps work in the desired range only, leaving your mid- and high-end frequencies intact instead of deadening a room’.
Hi FR. Above is an extract from a product description on the GIK website. Overdamping is prevented by using the right products for rate/level and ofcourse location in the room. You seem to keep focusing on the subject of overdamping for some reason- it is all about treating your room correctly-there is nothing else to it really. ATB Peter

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Watched all his videos in the build your own bass traps tutorials.
Very easy to follow and makes a lot of sense.

Going to try 6 traps soon.

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This is how lightly I have managed the listening end. The corner first reflections are managed only lightly with absorbers working from Hz 250 upwards, and as you can see behind the actual listening position and equally again also the centre Profuser diffusers covering up the glass directly behind my head, which thankfully has my ears attached to it. The wooden wall contraptions, of which I want one more on the right side after the granite stone sculpture gets removed, are QRD diffuser with zero loss of signal amplitude in their given working band of 500-5000Hz. Hope this helps ATB Peter

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I responded to IB who prefers to have full range speakers in a little room to have full bass. I don’t agree with that and the reason of my post, which I precised for Xanthe too.
I agree with you, you need to find the right damping. But the right speakers too.

I couldn’t live with restricted light :bulb:. I need all the light from the sun.
Even if the sound is not optimal.
I don’t criticize your set up, it’s just me.

… and maybe this is where NSats creep in :face_with_head_bandage: ATB Peter

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@PeterR
Hi Peter,
I’m out all the weekend for climbing training/workout.
I did the Monster Bass Trap test friday evening.
I’ll write out the results later.
Cheers

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FR, as @Xanthe already explained, you can damp a specific frequency range, leaving the rest almost untouched.

Btw, the expression “over damping” has to be used with care. It implies a lot of things. Used the way you use it, it loses its meaning.

You may over damp a frequency range, which leads to issues like uneven frequency responds, uneven decay time and a bad RT60.

But you can’t overdamp a room. Over damping a room implies over damping the whole audible frequency range, which is impossible in the context of our listening rooms.

You really should try Jessco’s videos. It’s just a couple of hours.

They provide comprehensive information on the subject, which might help your understanding of what room treatment actually is, and is not.

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FR I still need 18dB of damping at 42.5Hz, reducing RT60 from about 1s to 0.25s.

The same bass traps reduce RT60 @ 1kHz from 0.4s to 0.3s and make no consistently detectable change at 5kHz.

All I can say is from experience. I heard some systems at dealer places . Some were showing big speakers in average rooms, with a heavy treated room. ( In Paris you have a lot of dealers). I didn’t liked the sound in such rooms. It was too linear for my tastes.
Other were more lively, but the speakers were choosed in adequation with the room characteristics.

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Hi FR.
Regarding overdamping I can from my own experience relate to your argument. To my ears overdamping does exist, as I recently heard a system in a room with no acoustic treatment, but tons of heavy sofas and heavy rugs as floor coverings etc. I came also to a point with my own room journey, where I at one point felt, that the music had lost its sparkle. Thankfully these things are easily reversed, and you start again. This is why I have now taken great care in keeping my listening end of the room, as lively as I possibly can and only treated the most predictive/ prevalent reflections. Now where I know, that I have a virtual flat response up to 250 ( and now as I hear it beyond, I don’t worry about readings per se). I manage reflections by listening out for, what I do not feel is right for my ears, and in that respect I am tuning my room to my personal taste= how I want to hear the music. I am sure we all have our personal preferences. I am however now enjoying hearing, what my speakers treat me to, with what I CAN say is the least I have ever heard a room having its own say over/ contribution to. ATB Peter

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Peter, I can’t disagree. All is personal taste. And as you said, you can always return to less damping and adjust to your tastes. Or even add some panels if you prefer that way.
My last responses were essentially in relation with full range speakers in a little room, which necessitates heavy damping.

Hi Thomas.
I think it is important to remember, as good as Jesco’s videos are, that he is coming from a mixing studio background and has based his experiences on, what he has learned in this particular context. Recording rooms/ mixing and mastering rooms and a 2 channel dedicated listening room ( ours), all have slightly different requirements, when it comes to their damping characteristics.
Should anyone here be interested my recommendation would be to also listen to Dennis Foley@ acousticfields.com. He seems to put a considerable emphasis on the listening end vs the speaker end in his videos, which for me has been extremely helpful not only to learn and understand, but has also given me a great starting point in carrying out the treatment. I will however repeat, that the process takes a lot of patience and experimentation, and in most cases will take months. In my case it has taken just under a year, but hey it has been very much worth it! ATB Peter

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That video is interesting. But I have not taken already the time to watch it.

Will Thomas or Xanthe approve it ?

A photo of the result is appreciated!