The myth of burning in?

Hi-Fi Corner
61

I will trust you to recommend a good Australian red.

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62

But we don’t all leave our systems powered up 24/7.

Naim may recommend doing this, but a lot of other manufacturers, including the manufacturer of my main system’s pre and power amplifiers specifically advise against leaving them powered up 24/7.

They advise powering up around 30 minutes prior to a listening session and then leaving them on standby overnight. Sounds eminently sensible to me.

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63

Why?

64

That’s exactly the view that I have had for some time.

I’m pretty sure that on occasion in the past, I too have been guilty of viewing the minor changes associated with system ‘noodling’ and tinkering as improvements, when in reality they were just minor perceived changes.

65

But people frequently state, also in this thread and me included, that it was not invariably an improvement but good days and bad days during run-in

66

I am inclined to believe that ‘good’ days and ‘bad’ days are normal when it comes to something as cerebral and subjective as listening to music - not necessarily anything to do with ‘burn-in’.

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67

Possible, and I pondered this earlier in the thread, but whatever the reason it is not “change is invariably perceived as improvement.”

Edit: And I still believe that someone who does not think that it happens for electronics needs an explanation for why Naim think it does (and, if they are a Naim customer, for why they are buying kit from such a delusional bunch of people).

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68

Electronics are sensitive little chaps. Components are subject to heat,aging ( itself a complex degradation mechanism), and other stuff i expect.
Many components are micphonic. Mechanical vibration will be changing physical characteristics of components.

69

The ‘up and down’ doesn’t fit with ‘burn in’, which would be a one way change, and not with change one way one day and the other the next. And the ‘invariably’ I referred to applies to it invariably ending on up not down in terms of perceived improvement.

70

See my post 29, above.

Mark

71

Whether it fits theoretically or not, this is a common experience that people are referring to countless times regarding their “run-in experience” on this and other hifi forums, some in this very thread further up. In the 4th post of the thread or so I have suggested a psychological explanation, but it isn’t very convincing even to myself.

IF there is something to run in, in the sense that the components need some time to reach their targeted operational parameters, then it would not be surprising if the end result is always an improvement. Neither, of course, would it be a surprise if we just get used to the new sound.

Edit: And again, in a world where not only cables but cable directions are commonly accepted to make a difference, which I personally find just as difficult to reliably assess, the whole idea doesn’t appear so weird

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72

Cables have connectors, could it be the connectors settling? Naim seem to be convinced of the need to de-stress cables to the extent they have built equipment simply to shake cables. Could it be stressed cables/connectors relaxing?

I have no answers but have noticed changes in sound, better and worse, over a few days after connecting a new cable. I might concede some level of psychoacoustics if my wife hadn’t made similar observations, without prompting and without knowing a new cable was in place.

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73

I can’t understand why manufacturers would state a burn in time if its not required, whether its electronic, mechanical or cable. If they make the component and state a burn in time, then I believe what they say. The manufacturers don’t get extra ££££ after 100 hours.

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74

I’d like to make a prediction. The conclusion to this thread will be no conclusion.

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75

A simple answer to that, is that over the 100 hours people should get used to it so less likely to return it because they don’t like it.

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76

Of course :grin:

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77

With respect Lindsay I started this thread and I promise that after 100 hours I will say honestly that the speakers/cables sound either better or no different. My hat will not tolerate fence sitting.

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78

Which will be your subjective perception of course. We have all had those and are not the wiser for it :wink:

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79

And while this is a good point, they could just as well say, “the interaction between Naim equipment and the listener’s psychoacoustics is complex. Don’t judge new equipment before you have become familiar with it, which happens typically after over one or two months, or approx. 100 hours.”

And if it is just this getting used to, there should not be a difference when blind A/B-ing two identical boxes, one of which you let run in for 100 hours and got used to, and one that you didn’t. Not a very complex experiment for a hifi dealer maybe. But all dealers I know also either believe in run-in or they follow the logic you described for Naim

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80

Of course it’s subjective but the keyword is “honesty “. If I think my system has improved I will say so but if it sounds about the same then I will say that. In the end though this is just a little light hearted experiment. The Fraim police won’t need to get involved :slightly_smiling_face: