Let’s thank our lucky stars, no one with a scientific background works at Naim.
Roger
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Naim do this with their electronics, it’s an intense period of initial run-in for the electronics and is generally referred to as “soak testing”, and can last anywhere from 24-48 hours or stress testing under power and switching. AFAIK the aim is to weed out any problems (get a tiny cap round the wrong way and you’ll quickly know it!) and any componentry that’s likely to die young (it’s not 100% successful here but will catch 99%), and also to get a big part done of the burn-in period of the wiring, components etc.
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Interesting thread and one that will never end 
Personally, as an engineer I can understand much of the theory behind stuff. Although I cannot fathom how a ripper or ethernet cable could make a difference, I keep an open mind however.
For me, I really have no interest in any part of hi-fi that isn’t the source/amp/speaker. It’s possible that I’m missing out on mains conditioning, separate spurs, digital cables/ripping etc. but I’m happy to just enjoy the music without concerning myself with whatever differences or improvements may be attainable.
It’s a bit like a performance car. An air filter/exhaust/decat or any other mod may make a difference but I’ll still enjoy the journey in a stock car.
Each to their own I guess as long as you’re enjoying the music and not tying yourself in knots. I did that in my youth and it was really quite futile.
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ATC is another UK audio company for which I have great respect and they have claimed that the performance of their speakers will not change over time unless they are not cared for or get very old. And the latter should be less of an issue with their new tweeter because of the omission of ferrofluid which gradually thickens, eventually leading to changes in tweeter response.
Roger
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I can’t remember the exact specs, but I do know that power consumption in standby mode on my amps is a tiny fraction of the power consumption when switched on.
Remember, as someone pointed out in an earlier post, that the drying out of capacitors is largely down to heat, and heat output (in line with power consumption) is very significantly less in most amplifiers when in standby mode.
Of course, if you run class A amplifiers it’s another matter altogether!
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A quote for the Gender - the audiophile angle thread, perhaps?
Question: Did the dealer or designer say something about their standby being better for longevity than completely off?
And another thing that has come to mind since: can we rule out that there are differently-specced caps for different modes of operation and requirements? E.g. stable when always on vs. long-term stability during long off phases vs. robust against frequent power cycling
At this point, I am sure that most sceptics would accept the fact that there might be some substance behind many of the claims. I would certainly fall into this camp.
However, on the other hand, if at some arbitrary point in the future (let’s give it 50 years) no such measurement can be found, would most of those on the other side of the fence accept that the placebo/expectation effect or differing environmental conditions at critical times may be at play in some instances? I suspect not.
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Thats interesting Richard, so when Naim support say 100 hours + or - and the soak test has already given 24-48 hrs, in total a component can take 150 hrs to come on song then?
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It’s often times more difficult for people (in general) to give up existing beliefs than it is to adopt new ones…
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I’ve always wondered about simple changes people talk about like cable A adds bass and treble compared to cable B. That must be the easiest thing in the world to prove by doing a frequency sweep and compare in and out? Are there such measurements made? I mean, if one can hear bass is increased it should be somewhere between 1 and 3dB at least…
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Even more interesting is that on these forums there are many examples of people making the same claims between firmware versions for their devices. E.g. “v1.2.5 has more bass”, “v1.2.6 is more spatial”. It would be really interesting to see actual (physical) measurements in those instances.
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By the way, I am not someone who believes that ‘measurements’ are everything when it comes to selecting hi-fi components. I do very much believe in listening to hi-fi kit before buying.
I got into a fairly heated debate on a thread in the Roon forum when I voiced my opinion in one of my posts that whilst measurements mattered to an extent when researching possible purchases, I would never buy an item of hi-fi gear without first listening to it - preferably at home in my own system whenever possible.
Quite a few people countered by stating that arranging a demo was pointless if the specs of a component measured well. I recall that one of them had purchased a sub £100 Topping DAC on specs alone and claimed that it was better than more expensive DACs at any price because its specs were ‘better’. He and many of the others with similar views constantly quoted the ‘anonymous’ hi-fi reviewer Archimago who apparently measures every bit of kit he reviews but rarely if ever listens to them.
I’m not a measurement fanatic or guru. I’m just not convinced by a number of ‘possible’ myths such as the physical effects of long term burn in of electronic items and cables.
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I think without the soak test, it could be much longer.
Capacitors can be and are designed to be better in some applications than others, and whilst I have no direct knowledge re those specific examples I suspect that there will indeed be capacitors geared better to one or other. At about 25 years old I sent my MF 270 power amp for servicing - an amp that I used for typically 4-8 hours at a time maybe 4-5 days a week (off when not in use) and which ran at about 60C constantly when on regardless of sound level due to its strong class A bias - and it was returned without the reservoir caps being changed, they having tested spot on within spec.
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When I mentioned soak testing in an earlier post I gad in mind at least 24 hours, but recalling having read of 48 and even 72, though with no specific info as to manufacturers or models.
Edit: I have since read that Bryston soak tests power amps for 100 hours, at a power level just below clipping.
For how many years was the earth flat, that we would suffocate above 30mph, that spontaneous generation existed, that a smoke enema could revive a victim of drowning? All scientifically proven “facts” (I’m just playing devils advocate…).
I think I hear the effects but am happy to be convinced otherwise. If there were a measurement to prove what I hear is erroneous by showing what is actually happening, I think it would be easier to accept. That there isn’t a measurement doesn’t prove that the difference doesn’t exist, only that is can’t be measured with the tools being used.
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Ditto moving up the Naim amp range, or adding power supplies - which is interesting as IIRC all Naim’s power amps are intended to gave a flat frequency response across at least the full audible range
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True, but in the end that constitutes the God-argument:
“You cannot prove that God doesn’t exist, so therefore it is reasonable to believe that he/she exists”.
We cannot prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive assertion (i.e. something exists/happens), and anecdotal evidence does not constitute as sufficient proof by itself.
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However this would only measure sinus sweeps or white noise, etc., but not an impression of “more” bass because, e.g., of “faster”, more powerful transients.
While extremely skeptical about this, the same applies. Our ears & brains are extremely adept at hearing phase and timing differences, which are automatically converted/attributed to spatial information. Not sure this is measureable
I had this argument once when a different amp was said to trigger room modes that a lesser one had not, and I also said the same, “but all amps have flat responses in the audible range and certainly below speaker responses of nearly all speakers”.
However, after some consideration, arguably the same applies IMHO. The response to a sinus sweep may be the same, but a better amp might still put more energy into e.g. transients that would not show up in a sweep. (edit: but should/may in pulse response measurements of the room, but these are never done/shown in reviews and the like, as opposed to sweep response curves. Would be interesting to do with a mic and pulse response measurement software)
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