The Naim New Classic range - Part 1

[Gigantor]

I am Confused, please supply a link. I still do not see the mention of NA009 transistors. It does mention Class A/B thus crossover distortion. Have we gone backward or reinvented the past to make it more palatable for the current economic times?

Warm regards,

Mitch.

[Gigantor]

@Richard.Dane

It should quickly disabuse you of your ideas here about the new NAP250.

Dear Richard,

Why is it advertised as a NAP 250 and not a NAP 250 DR. There is a reason for this statement.

To me, something is missing from the puzzle no matter how well they sell it.

Warm regards,

Mitch.

[110dB]

@Gigantor

It is my gut feeling that they are passing off old stock ICs and bits as new. The Emporer without clothes.

There is no mention of the NA009 power transistors or 2-ohm loads that we know the NAP 250 can do. Gone are the improvements of cross-over distortion which was a sales and audiophile sweet point.

I think this is only a way of offloading unwanted components due to the lack of modern available components for a sweet system for new ears.

I am still backing the DR series amplifiers and NA009 transistors.

Good morning everyone!

Here’s some fun fact checks:

Old stock ICs
The new classic NAP 250 uses a full discrete transistor signal path, with no ICs.

No NA009 power transistors
The new classic NAP 250 uses NA009 power transistors for both the DR regulators and amplifier output stages. They are mounted on ceramic insulators to minimise circuit to chassis stray capacitance.

2-ohm loads
The new NAP 250 will drive through speaker impedance dips. It has been tested into 8, 4, 2, 1 and 0.5 ohms. Peak power into 1 ohm is 780W. I find this is especially critical for loud piano passages to play without fatigue.

NA009 power transistors
Eight of our custom power transistors developed for the Statement NAP S1 are in the new classic NAP 250. Interesting fact: During dev all ferrous materials were removed from the transistors. This effect can be heard not only in the listening room but also during high pulse power on the lab bench; the first prototype NA009 legs could be heard vibrating the PCB. Each NA009 is serial numbered and characterised.

DR regs
The new classic NAP 250 has more DR regulators than the NAP250DR. The DR regulators provide a low noise, low impedance voltage for the full amplifier including its output stage. There are more DR regs for the small signal balanced input circuits. Having another four DRs prevents cross modulation of the power amp section back to the balanced input.

Off loading unwanted components
New classic is manufactured using new components. The prices are very high at the moment due to lead times and availability. The components are in demand and often on allocation.

Best
Steve

[110dB]

Ironically it was to avoid confusion between the models.

The new classic 250 has 2x as many DRs as the NAP250DR

Best
Steve

[110dB]

Hi @Gigantor ,

Here’s a link:
https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nap-250-2023

If you scroll down to the section ‘Best of Naim’ it mentions there are DR regs

Cheers
Steve

(PS I work in R&D and developed NAP S1 and the NA009 power transistors. Roy and myself developed the DR regulators - there is a DR white paper on line. I can assure you all these elements are meticulously designed into the new classic NAP 250)

[Gigantor]

@110dB

The new classic NAP 250 uses NA009 power transistors for both the DR regulators and amplifier output stages. They are mounted on ceramic insulators to minimize circuit-to-chassis stray capacitance.

Dear 110 db,

Please supply a link on the manufactures webpage to this extent. I have found none.

After all the efforts in isolating noise and the fanfare to go with it and NAIM introduces a switchmode power supply.

I think they are eating their own BS and believing it and we are meant to swallow it?

What is the deal with all the outboard linear power supplies and separating digital circuits from analog and shutting down digital displays on CD players and so forth?

I am very skeptical that this new old system is any better than the old old system.

So do we dump out outboard linear power supplies as we are introducing switch mode power supplies? Or have we been feed guff for a long time?

You will have to win me over NAIM.

Warm regards,

Mitch.

[Gigantor]

@110dB

(PS I work in R&D and developed NAP S1 and the NA009 power transistors. Roy and myself developed the DR regulators - there is a DR white paper on line. I can assure you all these elements are meticulously designed into the new classic NAP 250)

Dear 110dB,

I still see no mention of the NA009 transistor in the power output stage for the audio,

It looks like smoke and mirrors to me .

Having said that I applauded your audio engineering, wonderful stuff.

Warm regards,

Mitch, ex-Clock Doctor. Cs 133

[110dB]

Hi @Gigantor ,

I work in Naim R&D and here’s a link to our website:
https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nap-250-2023

SMPSU
Yes, there is a SMPSU in the new classic NAP 250. The SMPSU is only and exclusively used in 0.5W standby mode. When the amplifier is playing the SMPSU is 100% switched off. The main large toroidal transformer and linear DR regulators then take over and power the whole product.

Displays
In the NSC 222 app the display can be turned off during playback.

Outboard linear PSUs
The NPX 300 is an outboard linear PSU. When it is connected to the NSC 222 the internal PSU is completely off.

Win me over
I can’t do that, hopefully you get the opportunity to have a listen.

The multi-disciplinary new product innovation team designed the new classic range to be:

• Better sounding
• Easier to use (the app works the same for mu-so, Uniti and new classic - see posts on the NSC 222 volume control)
• Easier to upgrade - interoperable PSU i.e. will power all new classic products released now and the future, no more pre-amp exclusive PSUs etc

Best
Steve

[GeoffC]

@Gigantor

Not wishing to flame.

My two bobs worth.

Please do not be offended.

1. But you did.
2. That’s all it is worth!
3. But again, you did.

As a naim owner for nearly 40 years, and someone who has worked with the genius talents in the factory, I find this post very disrespectful, trying to hide behind polite language.

Steve @110dB has and will provide all the answers you require.

Regards
Geoff

[110dB]

@Gigantor

I still see no mention of the NA009 transistor in the power output stage for the audio,

Hi @Gigantor,

I apologise, you are correct, there is no mention of NA009 on that page. I will message the Marketing team and have them add the information.

The NA009 is mentioned in the press packs and may get mentioned in subsequent reviews.

I can assure you there are eight NA009 in the new classic NAP 250. We are audio enthusiasts and open about the technology we use.

Best
Steve

[james_n]

It’s in the Brochure section (Manuals and Downloads) on that page

FP_NAP_250_EN%20%281%29_0.pdf

[110dB]

Thank you @james_n, I was just about to post that.

Best
Steve

[davidhendon]

@Gigantor

ex-Clock Doctor. Cs 133

Calling the senior Naim electronics designer a liar is what you are doing here. I bet your team were relieved when you left the Cs 133 project.

[Gazza]

Have a good weekend with family….you have earned it👍

[anon17458420]

Sorry but i asked some posts back, perhaps not directly enough. How does the new 250 compare with a 300 (DR/non DR)? Just browsing the specs it seems on a par with a 500 power amp and reading what you have just written, seems that it should better the 300 amp at least

[paulbysea]

@110dB

Peak power into 1 ohm is 780W. I find this is especially critical for loud piano passages to play without fatigue.

I didn’t know you played the piano.

More importantly, I would like to say thanks for this and all your other really helpful and informative posts in this and other threads.

[formelyknownasMoog]

You missed out the words

I allege that…

To the following sentences.

@Gigantor

It looks like smoke and mirrors to me .

@Gigantor

I think they are eating their own BS and believing it and we are meant to swallow it?

@Gigantor

I am very skeptical that this new old system is any better than the old old system.

@Gigantor

something is missing from the puzzle no matter how well they sell it.

@Gigantor

we gone backward or reinvented the past to make it more palatable for the current economic times?

@Gigantor

my gut feeling that they are passing off old stock ICs and bits as new. The Emporer without clothes.

@Gigantor

this is only a way of offloading unwanted components due to the lack of modern available components for a sweet system for new ears.

@Gigantor

this system is a wolf in sheep’s clothing

@Gigantor

backward step, smartly marketed.

[110dB]

@paulbysea

I didn’t know you played the piano.

@paulbysea haha, that made me laugh!

…and thanks for the kind words

[AndersI]

Today had a long listening session with the new classic range including power supply. Cables were full loom Chord Epic/Signature/PowerHous and speakers Sonus Faber Olympica. All I can say (as a 500-series owner) is that I could easily live with this setup.

[IanRobertM]

Excellent responses from Naim Staff @110dB , in the face of… (a lot of) rather provocative comments. IMO, YMMV, etc

This is the Naim Audio forum. If you really don’t like Naim and think its all Smoke & Mirrors, why are you here…?