The REL No.25 has Landed!

Yes, understood :+1: and that mighty 25 really is a thing to envy.

1 Like

Careful here… it’s turning into a subwoofer waving thread :wink:

:rofl: :rofl: :upside_down_face:

1 Like

To ensure there is seamless integration between the sub, satellites and their environment there has to be effective alignment, calibration and dialling in. If this is done correctly then the sub/s will optimally support the system and consistently disappear into the soundstage with a deep, sharp, tight fisted, fast and powerful punchy sub bass regardless of recording/genre.

6 Likes

That’s exactly what I’m hearing, it seems very natural and finishes off the deeper notes that used to just cut off. :+1:

2 Likes

Sorry for hijacking your thread.
I found the following thread on this forum

which is also very relevant to this subject in general. Unfortunately there are very useful details buried in this thread (comments from Richard Dane concerning usage and warnings regarding interconnects) that i would appreciate seeing in documentation (of the supercap) that are rather thin.
Technically speaking the Naim 4 pin DIN to RCA that are available for connecting socket 3 (extra signal output) from he Supercap to the line in of a subwoofer. Is this terminated as standard with the 100R resistor. When one says low capacitance, what are the values for the Naim cable?
If there are no plans to update user manuals and documents then may I suggest that this sort of information goes in an online document.
Could I suggest possibly a Naim wiki for building up the knowledge and useful tips etc…
I appreciate this would take time to setup but most communities nowadays use a wiki as standard. It’s also easier to maintain but again takes some effort to set it up

Hi Mark yes you would only not use the low pass filter if your preamp or home theatre system had the sub eq built in.
It’s a shame your phase control is very limited… many subs have a variable phase control. You might find you need to physically move the sub around if the phase is limited to either 0 or 180 degrees.
This is a harder thing to get right and you are listening for sharp bass aligned transients when working with your speakers… in other words a tight bass punch, as opposed to a slower, smeared bass boom… your room will be affecting this as well and if untreated it will be a case of getting it the best you can within the limitations of your listening room.

In my experience with home theatre this is not crucial, but with quality audio Hi-Fi it very much is.

Good luck… let the games commence :grinning:

1 Like

Indeed. However, and I would recommend the subs are mono’d at below 100 Hz if you can and not run in stereo, to reduce channel phase cancellation issues.
This is one reason why many clubs mono their bass subs when playing EDM (and I am told some dance clubs only work in mono across the entire audio band) and these days much pop/rock music and EDM is often mastered with the sub / low base frequencies mono’d, and with a steep cut off around 30 Hz or so… as this is wasted energy in the mix…
Obviously it’s a different proposition for film sub bass channel fx… which often is not about conveying musical information.

Indeed, and unless the room is sufficiently large or well treated for bass, and is about Hi-Fi audio as opposed to home theatre, I think a single centre sub optimised for a sweet spot listening position will likely be best.

Have multiple subs to cancel nulls in certain spots is all very well, but where there is a null there is usually a peak somewhere else… and I think musically there could be all sort of issues of properly phase aligning the subs in such a circumstance.

As said elsewhere for quality music replay (as opposed to home theatre) phase aligning for tight transients with strong bass frequency energy is key… and in my experiences in a domestic setting in many typical UK sized rooms without bass treatment… is difficult to do properly unless focussed on a sweet spot.

1 Like

Hi Simon
In most of the subs that I’ve looked at. Admittedly only B&W and REL, they don’t seem to provide a phase control, apart from 0 degree or 180 degree. Fortunately I am not limited with sub placement and so can optimise based on that.
Yes I’m sure let the games commence is very appropriate by adding a degree of freedom.
Let’s see where it ends up.
Anyone? @Richard.Dane perhaps? Any other remarks to my queries about interconnect special requirements?
Many thanks
Mark

The Naim DIN4-2xRCA Phono sub lead came in 5m and 10m lengths and had a 100R resistor fitted as standard.

I may be wrong but in general terms using a sub with 0 or 180 degrees phase alignment the starting point should be:
Set to 0 if the sub is placed on the same wall and alignment as your stereo speakers. (In phase).
Set to 180 if the sub is placed behind your listening position facing your stereo speakers. (Out of phase).

Ok thanks for the clarification. Appreciated

Unfortunately with sub bass frequencies you can’t rely on that - it will really depend on your listening room and system.

Here is a rather good phase setup guide I found online - and the author reminds us that subs on a hifi (music replay) setup is about the finding best overall compromise with the use of the sub in the listening room. (because the phase response varies with frequency)

Is the Naim sub lead still sold, or special order only @Richard.Dane ?

My Google searches (I’m not that great at finding specifics) haven’t turned up anything.

I’m still toying with the idea of trying a small sub with 252/300 DR, but the connection and settings give me pause…

I don’t know Stevie. Probably a question for your Naim dealer or Naim themselves.

1 Like

OK, thanks Richard :slightly_smiling_face:

I’ll get off my backside and do some work :laughing:

I use a single sub off socket 3 of the SC with a 252 and the set up has been pretty easy using a low cross over and gain.

1 Like

Cheers Mike!

Could I ask which DIN/RCA cable you use?
Naim/other?

1 Like

I had one my dealer had made up when I was running an output from my Uniti2 to a headphone amp, but it was a bit short for the sub, so a mate of mine worked one up for me. I’ve had cables made up by Sensibility in Canada who do Naim stuff, but I’m sure you’d have people more local.

1 Like