Many thanks, I am making plans to audition some streaming solutions, NDX2 also A dcs network bridge combined with my AN DAC. May also consider the Auralic and Metrum equipment options.
Hi Roog,
I look forward to your thoughts on the dCS NB + AN Dac, one of my favourite combinations - stonking stuff.
M
what would be the best way to Roon without being computer engineer, with NDX2 as end point?
Just stick Roon on any half decent computer or powerful NAS that you already have, to get it up and running. Control it with the Roon app on your phone, unless you actually want to stare at a computer screen while listening.
I run it on a 5 year old MacBook Pro and it works fine, although I may move it to a dedicated box at some point.
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what is AN dac? audio note?
Ah yes I should explain, I have an Audio Note DAC āOneā, an entry level product in Audio Noteās range, 16 bit, limited sample rate options and non oversampling and yet I find it has a charm, possibly due in part to its valve based output stage.
I have not really had a chance to carry out a full test and i havenāt been able to compare it with the NDX2, but a colleague has just bought a dCS network bridge and brought it round for a try out at my place.
I took a while to adjust to Roonās interface but I can see why it is becoming so popular. We hosted Roon on my colleagues apple laptop and connected it to my network, then accessed Roon through the dCS with control via an iPad.
Listening through my SU (as a pre) Nap 300dr and ATC SCM 40ās we were able to try the network bridge through the SU DAC, a Metrum DAC and the Audio Note āOneā in turn.
Access via the Roon interface ran smoothly with loading of tracks seeming slicker than my usual old 4th gen iPad and SU set up. I found the Roon interface to be fairly intuitive with alternative listening recommendations better and more varied than Tidal direct, (same sort of stuff, again and again!). I still find that these music streamer ātext searchā interfaces to be intolerant of my miss-spelling :0) I mean Google can manage to understand me most of the time!
I found the sound from the dCS front end to be ātighterā than the SU generally and probably worth the upgrade especially as it brings slick access to Roon for my old system.
Switching DACs I found the Metrum DAC to have a slight edge over the built in DAC of the SU, making a better job of resolving the finer detail. The Audio Note DAC has a softer presentation, which I find pleasing, once the critical listing is done its nice to just sit back and let the music āwash overā. I found that the SU DAC provides a very acceptable middle ground. Returning to the SU front end after the dCS had gone home, brought back the slightly more ābombasticā sound of the SU, playful and less serious than the dCS.
I will probably switch to a Roon front end in the future, I didnāt notice any fall off in quality due to listening via Roon but then I was listening through the Ā£3.5k dCS renderer instead of the Ā£3.5k SU āall in oneā so probably not a fair comparison.
I will no doubt give the NDX2 a listen in due course, but perhaps I may consider setting up an intel nuc to run Roon in the mean time and run it through the SU via my Rpi. that would be a cheaper way to get into Roon, if less accomplished.
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Roon brings a totally different user interface. We happen to really like it, vs the UI in the Naim app and similar apps.
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like many others have said, its great very user friendly UI and has many extra functions which I mostly donāt use.
if you copy load an album it instantly loads the metadata and enables you to just sit back and enjoy.
personally I think using a NAS is the easier way, as you donāt need to keep booting a pc up and the NAS uses less power than a PC.
get it you wont regret it.
the only problem with audio note is that it only plays 16 bit tracks. So a bit sad not to have access for 24 bit i think personally.
Perhaps the dcs bridge with second hand naim dac could give very good results, probably a good step vs the Super Uniti.
Yes frenchrooster, I did wonder about getting a Naim DAC-V1 to use as a ādigital only preā but I have doubts as to whether this would better the SU for sound quality?
While I had the dCS I did try the built in digital volume control, it was pretty good to my ears. Also wondered about getting a used Hugo TT to go with a used dCS and avoiding the pre stage. I gather that the Naim pre is considered to be essential however.
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yes, why not Roog, for your last choice. For the naim dac, i was more thinking of the ndac rather than dac VI.
I just had my first extensive Roon demo a few hours ago vs just Melco NAS running Twonky Server.
Immediate A-B of Roon vs NAS was the Roon was harsh and blunt sounding. Not what I had been expecting so tried a few different tracks and the same result - the Roon mediated result was far worse and not that subtle with it.
So my Dealer explored the Roon settings and we tried re-sampling PCM (I think) and that was better but the Roon still fell short but lost some of the crudeness.
We then switched Roon to no-transcoding mode where it just passd the signal and that sounded most musical and honest of all the Roon options we tried.
But switching back to just the NAS (Melco) feeding ND555 via Ethernet and it was by far the best SQ.
Roon seemed to lack low-level harmonic structure and just present a core sound removed of grace and subtlety - Iām wondering what all the fuss is about it? The user interface is wonderful amazing - but I want to listen to and immerse myself in the music and it took that farther from me.
Iād actually pay someone to remove Roon from my system if I had it!
The rest of the system was ND555 - full Statement and some huge PMC fenestria speakers.
Just my impression - have a demo and decide first as obviously it is popular but I was shocked at just how poor it was at the top level.
I wanted to know what I was missing - happy to get Roon if it was neutral or added - but it did neither for me.
DB.
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Thatās a shame DB. Iām not sure of the setup you were using as some of the settings you describe donāt sound familiar but iām sure the dealer (Signals ?) knows what they are doing. Perhaps the Naim implementation of RAAT isnāt as well executed as the UPnP implementation and this shows up through a top end set up. If sticking with UPnP you canāt go wrong with Melco though - super machines.
With my NDS and lms-to-upnp creating a UPNP stream Roon is indistinguishable from UPNP set off by the Naim application with music from my NAS. I would expect this as the NDS should be receiving the same data.
Itās curious that DB finds Roon inferior on the new platform streamer, the bear does have an excellent set of ears!
Where Roon does gain is on Tidal which now matches local files.
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I like what Roon does as far as control and access to information, but the key always for me is music SQ - and I was taken-aback it was as poor as it was.
The Dealer lets the Customer (me) have the demo as I wanted to hear if I was missing out on anything as some discussions were mentioning possible improved SQ - and that always interests me.
The graphics and control are a nice secondary aspect to have but the SQ has to be at least neutral - and this was negative at this level of replay. With an ND555 from what I heard you are missing a lot if the music data has been navigated via Roon. Direct via the Melco NAS with just one 1.5m Ethernet was rediculously better in terms of rendering fine detail and finesse - via the Roon control it gained a degree of coarseness and lost a lot of low-level detail.
Suzanne Vegaās voice on her debut album gained a sibilant quality and lost subtlety and emotion for example. Cymbals had a harsh tizz or āsmishā sound that was not on the direct non-Room feed method.
Roon made it sound like a rough remaster cleaning-up the sound by removing information - always on every song there was information missing.
Perhaps Iāll yet hear a wonderful Roon and then Iāll be impressed but when people have asked me āshould I add Roon?ā I have upset them by suggesting they have a listen to it first - Iāve now had my first proper audition - it really should sound better than this IMO.
DB.
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You surprise me Darkebear. I had thought to have put this one to bed already, on a comparison of Minimserver on Melco versus Roon. Will re-evaluate in the next few days, although it would take a lot to wrest Roon from me now, unless the SQ difference was irresistible.
Wow DB , I was getting ready to āpull the triggerā on Roon but have serious second thoughts now.SQ always comes first in my book.
Sounds like the test system was similar to yours. Do you plan on any additional auditions or have you heard enough?
The great thing about Roon is that you have a PC or NAS you can trial it for 2 weeks at home against your current setup.
I have seen several threads where a perceived sound deficit with Roon was negated by setup or settings. @Simon-in-Suffolk recommends reducing to 24bit output but Iām not sure if thatās for SPDIF out only as well as for the internal DAC.
I thinks the sound difference DB hears is too marked and so is likely a setup issue - or else we are all deaf!
.sjb
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I agree SJB. Iām pretty sure weāre not deaf!
As I said to DB, Iāll do some more critical listening in the days to come, but Iām prepared to bet I wonāt be ditching Roon anytime soon.
What where you running the Roon core software on. @Darkebear. Please can you post an image of the Signal.path from the Roon app and the device and audio setup pages sounds like somethings not setup correctly.