To be fair, it has improved over the fifty+ years I’ve been doing rock concerts. Mostly!
Technology moves on and all that guff
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What does that actually mean? I understand that if you don’t like them you might describe their music as crap, just as I might use that or a similar term for virtually all jazz, but posing as high art? Google tells me that art classified as high art is made to carry a deeper meaning than what appears on the surface. How did Genesis pose their music as having a deeper meaning (presumably falsely)? I have taken no notice of Genesis or heard much of their music made in the last 50 years, only liking their earlier stuff, so I may have missed something.
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If you want to evaluate music playback equipment look up Tune Dem on Linns site. It has served me well since the 80’s.
“Our favourite method of evaluating the musical performance, and thus the performance of the hi-fi, is simply listening to the tune. Many people immediately dismiss this as being the obviously too simplistic to provide meaningful results. But, in actual practice, this is an all-encompassing technique that more clearly brings out the differences in hi-fi systems than any other method of evaluation that we have ever used.”
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Unfortunately that process of assessment, at least as it has been described on this forum, only addresses a part of the performance of a system and the best at conveying the tune could have significant limitations that make it completely wrong for the individual for whom there is more of importance in the music. As a simplistic example, a system reproducing no bass at all might excel in every other respect, winning the Tune Dem comparison but not suiting anyone who wishes to hear all the music. It may be a useful tool in for some people, but in my view consideration of the better of two systems or parts thereof requires rather more complete assessment.
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It was a bit of a flippant comment made in the heat of the moment, and no offence intended to Genesis fans. Having watched interviews with him I actually think Tony Banks (keyboards) is a nice guy and I love the music he wrote for the film ‘The Shout’.
My comment was obviously a highly personal one. It wasn’t really fair to describe their output as crap just because it’s not my cup of tea so I take that back. Your description of what consitutes high art though is a fairly accurate description of my impression of much of their music. It seems to me to be trying to convey something which, to me at least, just isn’t there. It purports to have a depth of meaning that to me has no substance. Maybe it does though and I just don’t get it. It’s a very personal view which is obviously coloured by my own tastes. Maybe all I’m really saying is that I don’t like their music and I perhaps should have left it at that.
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Audiophiles have a habit of making things complicated. My partner could use the system anytime but only does so for LP’s. All other times she is very content to sing along with one of those little home pods.
That is what enjoying music is. We’re just anal.
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One of the most striking things that I noticed when I first got an LP12 way back in 1979 was that suddenly I could easily follow the tunes in the music. Yes it sounds simplistic but it makes a huge difference to the way I listen to music. The ability of a system to play tunes is all important to me and without it any system, no matter how good it might be in other respects, has little appeal.
One of the main reasons why I abandoned streaming was that I found that network noise greatly impacted on my system’s ability to play tunes. Despite various counter measures the problem remained and I couldn’t see any prospect of solving it to my satisfaction.
In spite of ending up with a Linn streamer, I’ve never found Tune Dem all that helpful. If I’m listening to a 10 second extract from a Bach fugue just what is the “tune”? Same question with say a contrapuntal choral piece. For me, pretty much all interesting music has a lot more going on than just the main theme, if there is one, and I want to hear that. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it was a clever means for dealers to influence buyers’ choices, but …
Roger
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I would, flat out.
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Agreed. That’s what the “but …” meant.
Roger
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It should be remembered that the dealer is trying to sell you something and is not your friend.
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Ultimately yes, it is his/her living but striking up a good relationship with punters could arguably be a better long term strategy. I remember my favourite dealer fondly until they’ve closed shop. Perhaps they should have been more ruthless in their approach … .
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I have had very good relationships with dealers in my various fields of interests. My record shop dealer always digs out stuff he knows I like, but if I go to the shop to buy one CD, I always come away with three. With photography and HiFi gear I usually have a pretty good idea of what I want beforehand. I try and do my homework before talking to a dealer. Sometimes they nudge you in a good direction, sometimes not. We have no local HiFi shops anymore, my last HiFi dealer was not a Snake Oil salesman and perhaps that is why he closed. A lot of HiFi gear is now criminally overpriced (cables i’m looking at you).
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Yup, caveat emptor!
And yet, there is still honour to be found. Recently I started a discussion with the guys at Moorgate Acoustics about why no-one ever uses 3 HiCaps in a Prefix/282 set up. I had 2, and there was a third in my hand from their shelves. Rather than sell me that HiCap, the consensus was that a Supercap was a better option, they didn’t have one, but they’d let me know if one came in and we agreed if I found one somewhere else I’d tell them to call the hounds back. 48hours later one came up at another dealer. They were delighted. No hard feelings, sheer joy and happiness on all fronts.
Often a dealer is clever enough to realize that customer loyalty is worth more than one lost sale.
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I have 4 such dealers by appointment to Asgaard.
To get this thread back on course. I read an interesting article about stereo music. The author talked about the fact that when we listen to a stereo recording played through two speakers, or headphones, our ears are fooling us into believing that the sound is spread across the space between the speakers (to simplify). Stereo music works because our hearing system creates a sonic illusion.
I look forward to a set of headphones that gives me the illusion that the music is in front of me. The Grell OAE2 cans are one step towards this goal. They use angled drivers. The designer Axel Grell, designed many of Sennheiser’s top headphones, including the HD800
So, if our ears are being fooled, we shouldn’t trust them?
I find the science of these things fascinating.
We cannot trust our senses 100%.
I really don’t know where you get the idea of ‘network noise’… it really is minimal to effectively non existent on modern equipment particularly where the DAC is separated from the streamer… unless you are referring to common currents passing through mains, speaker and metallic connector attached to your hifi which isn’t specific to ethernet. I suspect more down to relative performance limitations of the equipment you used.
But I know what you mean about following tunes. For me the biggest enhancement with that with my system was me using Falcon Acoustics Gold Build LS5/A … really can make a lot of more complex music simply pop into focus and clarity…it really is enjoyable.
I use a DAVE DAC. I think with digital reconstruction the quality and performance of the DAC is crucial in making music meaningful and clear and the performance or production become engaging. They certainly are not at all similar. You pay for what you get… and of course DACs are used to create vinyl these days too.