Haven’t been able to that comparison @Richard.Dane
Firstly your ears are the better selector of what components to buy and what sounds good to you.
There are some ratios that people suggest but I am not a fan of them.
Origin Live is a manufacturer of Turntables and arms in UK they suggest spending the budget on Turntable, Arm, Phono Stage and Cartridge as 30%-30%-30%-10% respectively. So if you had a budget of £6000 You would spend X3 £1800 on the turntable, Arm and phono stage then £600 on a Cartridge.
I’m still not sure what the objective is here. I mean the OP has a high end deck already. The ratios themselves might indicate something for a first foray into vinyl but that doesn’t seem to be the case here.
I’d point out that “cost ratios” and “importance” are not necessarily the same thing. Clearly get the deck wrong and everything else matters not. I’d say the established order of precedence is broadly correct. Cost ratios though… I think those are going to change somewhat depending on where you starting point deck is. A very good (for the money) entry level deck is probably going to benefit greatly from a better cartridge and power supply relative to it’s cost than say a mid level LP12. I don’t think one size fits all on the cost front.
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It is a very good version but I think the original issue is still the best. The trouble for many will be getting hold of one in near-mint condition and playing without noise. So the modern re-release can sound better because it is quieter.
Mind you I have a modern re-issue (not the one above) that sounds like you have placed a wet flannel over the speakers. Quiet, but awful.
The OP has a budget for a new cartridge. Their dealer is recommending cartridges at close on double the available budget. So the OP is, I think, sanity checking a bit before going further.
The cost ratio bit I admit is too simple a way to look at this.
I’m more than happy with my (mildly tweaked) Gyro SE, Rb3000 and Cyrus phono stage. Leaving the (semi) consumable cartridge. Perhaps the more specific question for me is what cartridges to consider as my next. However, the debate on the forum is, as ever, intresting.
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You’re more succinct that me! But yes.
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There are two Dynavectors at around your price point, the upgraded karat 17Dx and the longstanding XX2 whatever. The Dx is a bit of an unknown in comparison to the XX2 as there aren’t many reviews. A friend has just bought one but it arrived at the same time as his Karousel so his reported improvements over the old D3 are hard to apportion.
Another candidate might be the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze but I’d hesitate to put this on a Rega having found how sensitive the SPU Royal N, with the same stylus profile, is to VTA adjustment, but maybe Rega are right that it doesn’t matter much and what I hear is wrong. My old UK dealer was very fond of the Bronze on his Aro. If your Benz is old enough to have a Gyger S stylus the profile isn’t that dissimilar to the Replicant 100.
Then of course there’s Rega’s own offering or one of the Hana range.
What do you think of going full Gorb?
Gorb, yes have considered it, but i actually like the rotating brass weights on the Gyro! Sad I know. I hear various views on adding the Orbe’s platter to a Gyro. And it’s about £600 now.
I’ve fitted the Solidair " pylons", magnetic feet and Trinity mods to my Gyro. Each one made a noticeable difference. The magnetic feet the least. But the other two made the sound more detailed and direct. Also letting more surface noise through too. Had to reclean some vinyl.
I’d say the test was flawed if they did that. With arms and cartridges the combination is key, upgrading one of those for an objectively better one is not a guarantee the combination will be better. That’s also why it’s so hard to compare / audition them.
I’m less sure about the deck / arm combination as I’ve always had decks that came with arms as a combination. Can you say something about this?
What would you like me to say?
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It would be useful to know what hardware was actually used to produce such tests. I can only conclude that a Fischer price turntable with an Ittok LVII arm plus Linn karma did not work as well as an LP12 fitted with an LVV basik arm with Linn k17 cartridge. Sorry for the silly example but what I am after here is that early LP12 did not have the upgrades to the turntable that we have now (keel, radikal, urika) but nonetheless they were still using a decent arm and cartridge
The 80s LP12 was still an excellent deck for its time.
IIRC the lower priced systems used a Dual 505/MP11, a JVC Quartz direct drive with A&R P77, and a Planar 3, also with P77. The higher priced systems used a Thorens/Mission 774/A&R P77, a Sony PSX600 with Dynavector Karat MC, and a Linn Sondek/Ittok/A&R P77. For the latter there was also a Basic LVV arm and Basik cartridge available for the various comparisons.
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Sorry if it was unclear. Of course synergy is important between any components, but I was wondering about your experience regarding the combination of arm and deck specifically. With a cartridge and arm in my experience synergy is more important than between most other components. But not having any experience using different arms on the same deck I was wondering if that’s also in the above category or not.
As I know you have much experience with turntables and upgrading/modding them I though you would be a good person to ask about your experience there.
Ah ok, thanks.
I’m not any kind of expert here. Some arms have appeared to work particularly well on some decks, and some haven’t. But that doesn’t make them a bad arm or a bad deck, per se. It could all change with a different deck or arm. I agree that getting the combination right is a good idea, although some arms seem quite agnostic too. With any suspended deck, weight is always an issue. A deck which can be supplied with armboards of a differing weight seems like a good idea.
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Thanks for adding the details Richard and yes I can confirm it was a very enjoyable deck.
The P77 was indeed a nice cartridge. I had that when I bought my LP12 in 1984 with a Linn Basik Plus arm which is what I used with the 42N + 110 and a pair of HB1s.
I reckon they are all equally important and a lot depends on where you are starting from. I reckon the best deck you can manage comes first in priority as a u turn on that later is tricky. You can upgrade a good deck with a better arm cartridge phono stage as you go. But a 5k arm on a 2k deck is not a good way to go. Same goes for the cartridge. I reckon about 1/3 of the sound fidelity comes from the phono stage. I have about 6k to 7k invested in each of deck, arm, cartridge and phono stage and happy to leave it that. There are some really good second hand phono stages about including Naim… oddly I never wanted to spend much on one but when I did I was shocked as to how much I had been missing out.
That is a very wise statement. And I’ve followed it for decades! Seriously, though, my biggest mistakes have been underbuying rather than the opposite. At the same time, after nearly 50 years, I hit a point in my system where the gains are so small that they are not worth the bother. Unfortunately, this point in the life of an audiophile/music lover is different for everyone so I can only throw it out to comfort the afflicted.