I didn’t want to hijack the thread from the other day but I’ve also got a UnitiQute2 and recently bought a NAP100 which I was told was a worthwhile upgrade. I’ve also got a DAC-V1 and was going to use that with a second NAP100. The only external input seperates is a CD player. Would I be better plumbing it onto the Qute2 or the DAC-V1 or does it not matter. There’s only a single pair of RCA outputs on the Qute so would it be OK to use an RCA splitter from this single RCA pair on the Qute to send the line out signals to the NAP100 and a subwoofer respectively. I was going to run the input to the sub from the bypass pair of a Lehmann Linear Black Cube headphone amp. Speakers I’m using are Linn Keilidhs and ATC SCM 11s and an Acoustic Energy sub. Which would be the best combination. Would a NAP200DR be a sensible upgrade?
Gosh I have no idea what your scenario really is after reading that. Are you saying you have two independent systems in different rooms? One UQ2/100 and another V1/100? An if so, which is the main system?
FWIW, the V1 is a better DAC and preamp than the UQ2. But the Keilidhs will respond better (I know from experience owning them in the past) to biamping them with a UQ2 and 100.
As for the sub, the UQ2 pre-out won’t enjoy driving a long interconnect that is meters long to the sub. And another unknown is whether the sub earths the return or not which could create a potential loop. If the sub supports taking a feed from the speakers cables instead, that would be a preferred option. Which would be done by wiring the speakers normally and then taking another cable that connects to the spade nut on the speakers to the sub.
I’m surprised a sub is needed. Keilidhs are not exactly light on bass. I assume you plan on using it with the SCM-11s?
Yes you’ve understood pretty well I think. Yes 2 relatively independent systems in 2 rooms and in the Q2/100 and V1/100 you describe; the commonality being a UnitiServe and a NAS on the network. Like you’ve correctly pointed out there is no point using the subs with the Keilidh’s because they have enough low down grunt. I was intending to use it with the SCM’s if they need a helping hand. So you think the V1/100 should be the preferred main system over the Q2/100 then? Would the V1 benefit from a NAP 200RD or should I go for a better streamer/pre and 200RD and sell on the Q2/100 and keep the V1/100 as a second system?
Hope you followed all that.
Difficult to say because I am biased towards Keilidhs having owned them and given them up against my will.
So I can only give a biased opinion. I’d do this:
Put the UQ2 in source mode and feed it to the V1 to use as pre and DAC. Get a HiCapDr and a SNAXO set for Keilidhs and put 3xNAP100 on it and take the Keilidhs active. Put the whole lot on a Quadraspire midi rack (40cm wide instead of 60cm) and have one balling small footprint shoebox active system.
This assumes the Keilidhs have the latest spec tweeters and Kustone plinths.
Then rethink the ATC based system from scratch.
Must admit Zen that I do like the Keilidh’s which I was using with my Linn System, which is now stored in the loft pending a try out of Naim gear. Consequently, I’m not that familiar with Naim and can’t understand the seemingly random nature of alternative interconnect options RCA/Din(4pin/5pin) etc. Presume a HiCapDr is a power supply to connect to what? Also what is a SNAXO?
HiCap is a power supply which would be needed to power a SNAXO which is an active crossover. Naim make 2 and 3 way crossovers so you’d need a 3 way one for the Keilidhs.
Of course none of this is cheap. But I guess a NAP100 is equivalent to the old Linn LK100 power amps.
It’s just what I’d do. It’s loads of boxes; money; and a speaker mod to remove the passive crossover. So not for the faint of heart. But active Keilidhs are sublime.
That sounds like it could be an interesting option. The Keilidh’s are on Kustones but not sure of the tweeter vintage. Any way I can tell easily? Removing the crossovers shouldn’t be a big deal I wouldn’t have thought. It only involved screws and a soldering iron doesn’t it?
The last tweeters had 3 metal in front of them.
Ironically, part of the reason why I tore down the Linn system was 1) to give it a good spring clean behind the rack and 2) to try out a minimal Naim system with very few boxes. The Linn consisted of streamer/tuner/preamp/CD/DAC/2xMonoblocks so 7 Linn boxes in total + RP3 and Lehmann headphone amp. So slowly getting back to square 1. I also now have a NAP200DR
If you fancy going active, fair enough, although that is the extreme opposite of your ‘minimal Naim system with very few boxes’ idea! If you want to keep it simple, I would sell the V1, get a 172 or 272 to use with the 200, and you’re done. 2 simple systems, both controlled by one app, with a multiroom option if you want it.
Sounds like I have several options with the boxes I already have. I like the versatility of the Q2 but on it’s own it doesn’t have enough grunt for the speakers and was hoping the NAP100 cater for that (although it only boosts to 70wpc). Maybe bite the bullet and get a 172 or 272 then. Is there a lot of difference between the 172 and 272 and would the 200DR work well with either or is it not up to the job with the 272?
A 200 would be a good match for either. I think the 172 is underrated, and it should be a good deal if you can find one.
The 200 DR spec does not help with these, as the DR spec only applies to it’s preamp power supply, which you would not be using.
Chris. I’ve never understood what the DR bit of the power amp meant, as opposed to the non-DR versions. Therefore, I don’t really understand what you meant in the last sentence. The 172 or 272 are streamer/pre-amp combined units aren’t they?
Zen. I checked last night and the Keilidh’s do have a black metal grill in front of them so are they the latest spec?
DR means Discrete Regulator and it is a technology whereby Naim closely control the power supply at key points of the circuit. If you google it you will find a better explanation.
Anyway the point of Chris’s comment was that in the case of the NAP 200DR, there is no DR in the power amp as such, but it will provide a DR power feed for a preamp. This is unlike say a NAP 250 DR where the power supply for the power amp is DRd and it doesn’t provide any power for a preamp.
In the case of the 172 and 272, they are both powered by their own supply (or you can add an external supply to the 272). So this means that a NAP200 DR has no advantage when used with a 172 or 272 compared with a NAP 200 which isn’t DRd. But if you used a NAC 202 preamp for example, it could take a DRd power feed from a NAP200 DR.
DR (Discrete Regulator) tech was developed by Naim and is an improved voltage regulator used in many of their power supplies. In the 200DR, the DR tech is only used in the power supply that it used to run some Naim preamps. The 172 and 272 do not use the power supply in a 200, as they have their own built in PSU. So there is no benefit to having a 200DR compared to an older non-DR version.
So if I want to take advantage of the DR functionality would a NAC202 and dedicated streamer be an upgrade from a 172 or 272 directly into the NAP200DR or not a worthwhile or sensible thing to do? What are my options for a dedicated streamer? I could explore the active Keilidh route but that sounds like the most expensive option so that’s taking a backseat for now. I could fund the options above be selling one of the NAP100’s and either the DAC-V1 or Q2. What would others do given all of the above? I’m happy with the simple 2 shoe box size 2nd system but I’ve binned that philosophy for the main system. Back to several boxes again.
I reckon in a worst case scenario I’d pull in about £1000 for the NAP100 and the either the Q2 or V1. They’re all mint and original packaging etc and looking on ebay that will fund a used NAC202 and I’d have to get a streamer then. Otherwise the sale could either fund most of a used 172 or half of a 272. Decisions, decisions. What would be better and what streamer would people recommend? Must be a few running similar setup’s I’d imagine. For old times sake I want to keep a CD player option and I’d imagine through the 202 would likely be better sound quality than through the line in of a 172/272? Dunno!!
If you don’t mind a few more boxes, a 202 with the right source could be a good move. You could run that with the V1 or Unitiqute as a source while you look out for a streamer. Maybe save up for a nice used NDX.
I spent quite a bit of time listening to these systems at my dealers, and I would definitely take NDX/202/200DR in preference to 272/200.