I currently have the Chord QuTest DAC. I love its musicality and “up close” sound. It feels more emotive and engaging than even higher-end “neutral” DACs I’ve heard. Just like it takes time and experience to appreciate a fine wine, is my ear just not developed sufficiently to appreciate the higher-end “neutral” DACs? When I’m listening to music for enjoyment, I don’t want to listen critically, I want to feel the music. Does this make sense? I want to “feel” and “experience” the music I listen to. What do you look for when you’re listening to music?
1 Like
Yes, ‘feel’ and ‘experience’ the music rather than critical listening/ listening to the Hifi. This is what Naim captured on their CB series and shoebox Naits I believe. Others will have other ideas/preferences of course.
4 Likes
Finally I have come to realise that neutral is exactly what I do not want. I want a little bit of warmth but still with strong dynamics and detail.
We all have different ears though but it think the key is to be honest with oneself about what we like, not follow the audiophile mantra of accuracy is best.
Thrived chord dacs for a bit (qutest and tt2) but, if I am being honest they were the opposite of what I wanted but I could appreciate how special they were at presenting a clean detailed image.
5 Likes
No such thing as neutral. Merely your individual perception of neutral. I was introduced to LP12s as neutral years ago and thought that if that’s what the aspiration was then I didn’t want it. They were dull. Now I’m older my ears hear them as slightly warm but, er, still dull.
I had a CDX2/XPS2 and whilst many were critical of its forward or up close nature I absolutely loved it. Full on chrome bumper PRaT and had my toes and fingers tapping every time I used if. I heard a CDS3 with its two power supply options and heard that as way more timbrallly accurate, impressively so, but, again, for me, just dull.
And then one day the CDX2 did nothing for me one day and was great the next. Massive thread on here if you ever have a bored day. Ultimately, putting aside the constant hassle of breaking boxes and temperamental cables, my ears had changed and I realised I no longer wanted to be in the front row. The CDX2 was putting me on edge.
Long story short I moved to streaming and auditioned what I thought would be my end game DAC. The Qutest. I’m sure you can guess what happened next. I thought it was far too forward. Mrs. H. said it felt like the music was clawing her face. We opted for the “better” (ho ho ho) Chord Hugo TT2. The latter puts me several rows back; is far more relaxed than the Qutest; retains more than enough PRaT and does soundstage depth which the Qutest doesn’t get near.
Subsequently my DAC has been in for repair twice and I’ve been loaned the Qutest for my system. It’s not the TT2, but, I soon came to appreciate that it’s a very fine DAC indeed. I know what it’s missing but if those things are things you currently can’t hear or are not a priority then I absolutely see no issue. Maybe one day your hearing will change like mine. Maybe it won’t. In previous years, if I’d moved to a CDX2 with the digital out, I could well see that the Qutest could have been my DAC of choice.
Bottom line? If you’re loving the musicality and not only can live with but actively love the up front nature of the Qutest then just enjoy it. Your ears want this right now. One day they might not but equally this may simply be what you’ll always want. Just enjoy it.
5 Likes
Spot on. It’s all about presentation.
1 Like
Nothing.
If you’re listening to the sound of the system, rather than listening to the music, there is obviously something not quite right with your system.
Involvement and engagement first of all. But that is easy, predominantly down to choice of music. Otherwise sounding ‘right’, which I suppose is close to when experiencing the same thing live, when heard from a good position in a good venue with, for amplified music, a well balance sound system. Clarity is an important part of that, as is full range sound. Chord Hugo introduced that to me, and Dave has perfected, of course as part of a good, predominantly neutral system.
Note that deeply personal preferences are at play here.
I used a Qutest for several years with my SN3. Then upgraded to HCDR + SN3. Chasing more depth and organic engagement, I added a Plixir Elite BDC (5v/2A) LPS + their Statement DC cable, in lieu of the factory SMPS. This was a revelatory upgrade. Transformed the DAC. I rolled with that for a year. Then added a JSSG360 Gotham GAC 4/1 UltraPro DC cable with Oyaide connector. Another move towards ease, scale, etc. Added a USB->Dual BNC Converter (with BNC filters) from Audiowise. Another obvious step in the same direction.
However, about 10 months after that, my dealer had a mint condition NDX 2 from a trusted customer come back on an upgrade trade. I had to have it. SO I grabbed that and, nearly simultaneously, found a lightly used XPS-DR from another dealer on fleabay.
There’s something to be said for Naim Synergy. Suffice it to say, I have now sold all of the pre-NDX 2/XPS-DR equipment and am still delighted with the NDX 2. May even upgrade to a 555PS DR power supply to replace the XPS-DR.
2 Likes
I like Chord DACs, having just upgraded a Hugo mk1 to a TT2. The TT2 was immediately better than the Hugo. It sounds lovely, loads of detail, but also it sounds very natural to me. On the back of changing my NAIT XS3 to a CB 42.5/HiCap/110, which sounds very engaging, I feel I have lots of good attributes from a system that suit the music I listen to. None of the qualities of the Chord or CB kit seem to be masked when used together, or at least the music is improved in all those ways over the previous setup! I didn’t audition any other DACs though.
Are you asking due to the “issues” with the Weiss DAC you recently posted on your other thread?
If you haven’t already then I think listening to a TT2 would be worth doing if you can. For me, I think, the extra detail the TT2 provides isn’t distracting, I can tune into that if I like, but the engagement I think the CB kit also brings allows me to slightly tune out as well. I enjoy listening in both “modes” though don’t actively try and just find myself occasionally recognising I’m noticing enjoying slightly different aspects of the recorded music.
Possibly not answering your question as posed!? Be interested to hear what prompted your question - do you categorise the Weiss DAC as one of the neutral DACs in your original post?
1 Like
Good description of the TT2. It’s described as being ever so slightly on the warm side of neutral and I think that’s about right. I also find that if I want to hear a specific element of the music it’s easy to distinguish but the DAC doesn’t naturally draw me to individual elements. I also think that’s applicable to the Qutest.
2 Likes
Yes, I’d describe the Weiss DAC as “neutral” compared to the QuTest. It has more detail and is not as forward (3-4th row verses first-row listening). It also has just a little more depth and soundstage. Although I can appreciate the higher quality and more “neutral” presentation, I miss the thickness and tactile nature of the QuTest. To me, it’s more engaging although it may be more fatiguing than the Weiss if listening for a long time. I see myself as someone tasting fine wine for the first time and learning his palette - what’s good and why. I just know that, for now at least, I think the QuTest provides a sound that is more emotive and engaging to me at this point in my musical evolution. 
Don’t get me wrong, I like the Weiss. My biggest issue now is that it is more sensitive to jitter and noise from my lower-end streamer (Bluesound Node 2i) and drops audio periodically. If I keep the Weiss, I’d be forced to upgrade my streamer. Although I planned to upgrade the streamer at some point, I wasn’t planning, or budgeting, an upgrade right now.
1 Like
The Weiss DAC204 is specifically engineered to leverage a premium linear power supply for peak performance. You can purchase one directly from them or explore various good third-party alternatives, among them Plixir, ModWright, or UpTone Audio, which is what I use and recommend. You can use “any other appropriate supply” from 6 to 9 volts DC according to the user manual.
In contrast, Chord advises against the use of third party power supplies, as their DACs benefit from robust internal noise filtering, allowing them to perform well even with the cheap stock switching mode power supply. Bottom line is you can’t really evaluate the Weiss DAC204 with the stock SMPS.
1 Like
That is a good question…
with much commercial music I like to listen to the production techniques and how the piece has been recorded.
Sure I took courses in musical production and you are encouraged to critically listen to enjoy how the production is put together to create the musical experience.
So to the replay equipment… for me it should be sufficiently uncoloured to allow you to listen into these recordings.
If too sweet or dry(analytical) then the sound is being coloured and you are losing information…
A system should allow compression styles , eq, gating, subtle dynamics, mic positioning, hall acoustic etc to come through and allow you to enjoy or at least appreciate the musical performance of whatever genre.
If you find yourself not noticing anything when listening to a recording, it’s either a very poor production, you have a poor replay system, or you are not really listening to it.
2 Likes
You will likely find the quality and balance of a replay system is not governed by a DAC, but by the room/speaker matching, and matching of the amp for those speakers… or course headphone and headphone amp matching.
Sure DACs do vary, as there are different ways of cracking that nut, but differences are usually subtle and go into the subtle breathability, subtle timbres and details and relative dynamics.
I do think that some people struggle with speaker room matching, such the performance is fragile or sensitive… which means subtle changes in the replay chain lead to an exaggerated performance replay chain. Such setups are also likely to show highly compressed or ‘hot’ productions sounding unattractive, bland or messy.
I also think that some don’t properly mitigate RF in their replay system that can make the audio from some DACs /CDPs etc sound ‘digital’ or bland. I found that quite a discovery in my journey.
At a personal level, I rather like DACs that Rob Watts has designed. I have enjoyed and listened to many of them … for me when suitably matched with the right down stream system whether it be with room/speakers or high end headphones, provide the ‘Mandelbrot ‘ effect that allows me to listen into the music easily … so I can follow a bass line, easily follow the parts of an orchestra, hear the singer moving relative to the mic, hear the reverb gating on a drum… and then effortlessly zoom out to enjoy the overall production and zoom back in again subconsciously … just like I do at a gig or concert. This is what a good DAC can enable. It started with the Hugo mk1… which was a revelation… and I am still fond of it and I use from time to time, and now I use a DAVE in my main hifi system.
I do have and use other DACs and some are very good and capably transparent, but I do find myself returning to Watts’ stable out of preference.
1 Like
Probably, but that’s not a crime - it’s the reason that many people tune in here.
These are two different things. There are many things that many listen to when listening to musical productions and recordings… . But yes if you find yourself listening to some artefact or limitation in your replay system that prevents you enjoying it that should be addressed
Well I just listen to the music 
If I was trying to listen to the production values or similar then the enjoyment of the music has failed & I’d give myself a slap 
2 Likes
But the production creates the music you enjoy… and that is much of the music as anything… 
I think in some audiophile circles there are misunderstandings or naivity on how recordings and productions are made to make them sound ‘musical’.
So if you enjoy a musical recording you will be enjoying the production techniques… try not to slap yourself too hard … but seriously there is nothing wrong in enjoying recordings or productions… and is a real musical skill.
1 Like
No never slap myself to hard, just others
Pleased you took out that line with an edit.
Made you sound like a right pretentious snob! 
Happy Christmas 