Upgrade 252 / 300 questions

I have some questions about some upgrade thoughts and would appreciate your help please.

NAC 282 & HiCap-DR x 2 replace with

NAC 252 / 252PS or possibly Supercap DR

Or - or possibly as well as …..

NAP 250 DR Replace with

NAP 300 / 300PS or

NAP 500 / 500PS (but I would have to fins an extremly good deal somewhere and some addition room)

Firstly, I think upgrading the preamp will provide the most bang for bucks – am I right?

Secondly, all of these items come with their own PS. Are all of them available as ‘DR’ or is it only the PS that are DR?

Thirdly, I see that the NAC 252 is frequently paired with a Supercap. Is that a significant upgrade to the 252PS supplied with the NAP 252?

I guess I should also ask if I am barking up the right tree or if I am missing the point entirely?

Anything I buy will be from the ‘old’ classic range.

Your thoughts please.

Thanks

Hi, yes looking at your system I suggest upgrade the preamp first. You don’t mention what source you are using but I assume it is of good enough quality for this level of system.

The power supplies normally come in either non-DR, or DR. The DR variant is normally better than the non-DR.

The NAC252 needs a Supercap or preferably Supercap DR. I’m not sure what you mean by a 252PS - I have neaver heard of such a thing!

I have an old classic system and went a slightly different route to what you are taking - I had a 282 with a single HICAP DR and a NAP250DR - I replaced the HICAP with a Supercap DR then replaced the 282 with 252. I then replaced the 250DR with a 300DR. Absolutely no regrets would 100% recommend this.

3 Likes

That’s a very logical path and one I took a good while ago now - 252 /300 is a great combination and has wonderful synergy - DR versions in my view are better than non DR.

To the OP just keep an eye on dates and service intervals when buying used - typically Naim products need a service every 10-12 years and it’s not cheap…. But it does give you good product longevity!

Gary

2 Likes

Thanks

My apologies - I was confusing the 252 with the 552 regarding the PS.

So, if I understand both your replies correctly. the ideal scenario would be:

NAC 252 (no DR version as it doesn’t contain any power components)

Supercap DR

NAP 300 DR

The whole system is as follows:

  1. NDX2 Network Player

  2. CDX2 CD Player

  3. Yamaha CD-S3000 (SACD player). Could also be used as an armoured personnel carrier if you added wheels and a gun.

  4. Sony Blue Ray (used for audio only) HDMI output

  5. NAC 282

  6. HiCap-DR x 2

  7. NAP 250 DR

  8. XPS (DR I think) - Used for NDX2 and CDX2

  9. Focal Scala Utopia Evo Speakers

  10. Graham Slee Solo Ultra-Linear DE Headphone Amplifier

  11. Audeze LCD-3 Headphones

  12. Uniti Core Music Server

2 Likes

If you go to the 252 my experience was the DR Scap power supply was a lot better than the non-DR. Seemed to just bring out the best from the preamp.

In your system a s/h NDS could be very fine. 252 would be a good step though.

Bruce

Yes, NAC252, Supercap DR & NAP300 DR - I have this and it’s a great system.

I also use an NDX2 but with a CD555PS DR (replacing my previous XPS DR). This is a stepping stone towards replacing my NDX2 with a ND555 which is next on my upgrade path, it came up at a good price, but in all honesty I’m very happy with where I am for now.

I see you have Focal Scala Utopia Evo Speakers (wow!). I think the NAP300 will drive them much better than the NAP250 and is a great amp. I can however see why you were considering a NAP500 for these which may be required to get the very best out of them, but others may be able to advise better than I on this point. I would still upgrade the preamp first though regardless of what power amp you end up going for.

It was the 52 (predecessor to the 252) that originally came with a dedicated 52 PS which was replaced by the Supercap. So you would need a Supercap, preferably DR.

You realise, I presume, that you’ll need 2 of them to power two devices?

The earlier olive series XPS can power a CD player, but it can’t power a streamer. So for the NDX2 you need an XPS2 or an XPSDR.

If you want to use the HDMI output on a Bluray player, what are you connecting it to? I don’t see any other devices on your list with an HDMI input.

The 252 is a significant upgrade from the 282 - obviously DR. And the 252 combines very very well with the 300DR. With your sources that would be an ideal combination. And you would have everything nicely leveled. The combination would also still give you room for a future source upgrade if you want to do that.

So overall a wise next step.

2 Likes

Yes, 252 and supercap DR with 300DR and you are good to go - great amplification!

As for source I preferred the NDS to NDX2 (I used a 555 ps)

I also went down the innuos zenith mk3 route which meant I could use quobuz via the sense app which is great btw) and play my ripped cds as well as quobuz / internet radio.

With this approach you may find yourself not using your cd player!

I’m sure some will advise on order to get but with used just buy them as they come uk and factor in servicing costs )if you go down the 500 route I think they cost even more to service! )

Thanks everyone

To clear up a few points:

The Bluray player actually connects via coax not HDMI (my mistake)

I only have one XPS (which I think is a DR - it’s too close to the wall to be able to see the back!) but I swap the burndy cable between the streamer and CD player. Increasingly I use the streamer these days so I don’t swap very often.

I would much prefer a NAP 300 DR as it seems to be the perfect balanced option for the 252 but at the moment there are none that I can find for sale so I may get forced down the 500 route if that remains the case.

The Focal Scala Utopia Evo Speakers (wow! Indeed!!) are fantastic but only possible for me (and even then only because I had a few beers to detach myself from reality when I ordered them) were less than half price as ex dem. They are the white and wood finish which are theoretically 3 grand more than the plain painted ones. It’s all daft really but once hooked it’s tricky to unhook as we all know.

Why do you feel the need to change? So many permutations of source, pre and power - I think you need a good dealer and some demos.

Quite a few of the answers (all appreciated - thank you) mention servicing.

I haven’t really considered this seriously but maybe I should.

I hear mention of ‘recap’ quite frequently but I have no idea what it means.

I assume the service components would be roughly the same in a power supply as they would be in a unit with integrated power - NAP 250DR for example.

Can anyone tell me exactly what is replaced during a service of these items and, looking at my existing system (above), which items would be the ones to service please?

This is opening up the option of keeping what I have and geting it serviced or replacing with 252 / 300 and having to service them. Of course I might get lucky and find recently serviced kit but that’s not very likely I suspect.

They replace the capacitors which degrade over time.

How old is your 282/250 if 12 years plus it would likely benefit from a service but even post service of your 282/250 a 252/300 is still the better performer.

Be patient and keep an eye on dealer websites as they often get trade ins and it’s a “safer” experience buying from a dealer - you may pay a little more but for peace of mind it’s worth it plus you can discuss trade in and servicing as any servicing is done via the dealer network.(there is an option to go direct with Darren at Class A from memory)

Google “Naim exdem “ and there will be a whole host of used Naim equipment from dealers all on one website.

If you do chose to service your 282 it’s unlikely it would add the spend you make to the value if you sell it…. So if you are looking for a genuine upgrade then I wouldn’t get it serviced.

Get a super cap for your 282 (good step up) and then you can enjoy that whilst you wait for a 252 or 300 to come up.

Good luck

1 Like

With your Focal Scala Utopia speakers you really want a 500DR to get the best from them.

They are epic speakers!

I would get the Supercap DR first then 300DR for what you are currently looking to upgrade. Then 252.

Then get the 500DR and if you can a 552DR later down the line.

I had a 52, the precursor to the 252 with a Supercap 2 and a 500DR for a brief time and it sounded superb.

What you have will also work well with a 300DR before getting a Supercap DR.

It depends if you have an actual goal you are working towards?

There is a nice 252/Scap on the bay right now.

I was asking earlier what your objectives are with this proposed change? .. louder, smoother, brighter, more explicit, deeper bass, higher highs .. ?? The answer affects what your next steps should be. In your shoes I would first and foremost put a PS555 on the streamer / DAC.

I would normally agree with the ‘source first’ approach. In this case not sure it’s that simple due to the availability of the old classic range. I would be looking for the right Supercap DR, 252, 300DR or 500DR to come up on the used market, either with service history or not old enough to yet need a service, and I would buy whatever came up first. Then carry on to the next step.

The problem with the mullet first approach is you might hate your system until you’ve bought everything you need. Don’t know your circumstances but presumably that might be quite a while. That’s no fun. Going source first means you’ll enjoy each incremental change as you make it.

1 Like

I’ll update and address some of the points that have been raised in a couple of days.

In the meantime could someone explain the NAP500 please?

There are a number of used NON DR versions available for around £8K. Sadly there don’t seem to be any DR versions around at the moment.

The new NAP 500 DR retails at about £27K or a bit less as ex dem.

I assumed that the £27K version was all part of the Naim upgrades that started in the last few years and therefore a decent upgrade on previous versions, but I can’t actually find any evidence of that.

Is the NAP 500 second hand for £8K actually the same as the £27K version - the latter obviously being both DR and new and the former neither of these things.

I just can’t get my head around the massive difference in price for what could be just a DR version of the PS.

Am I missing something?

If not then surely a non DR for £8K represents excellent value. Sadly as there are no second hand DR versions avaiable at the moment, I can’t see what they might sell for but a guess would be around £10 / £11K used.

Is anyone able to explain?

1 Like

The NAP500DR uses the NA009 transistors that were first developed by Naim for the Statement amplifier. These were used in place of the earlier NA007s which were used for both the amp and regulation boards.

While the NAP500DR is an improvement over the earlier NAP500, the latter was and still is a superb amplifier, so does indeed appear to represent excellent value compared to the DR version at current prices.