Upgrade advice 52 or 552 or Radikal 1 Urika upgrade to Lp12

Hi-Fi Corner
22

All the best. Hope all goes well.

Prices of used 552 are beginning to look good and I’d say that might be your best first move, albeit the may fall in price a little more once new products come on the scene. Knowing what the 135 s can do and the fact you have a top notch streamer in the NDS, I’d say a 552 could easily be slotted in and sound superb. So too would a 252 though, but in a different way. If you locate a bargain 552 go for it though.
I guess that’s a biased view from someone with no vinyl source these days. I can see why the LP 12 upgrades could be tempting though.
Enjoy whatever you decide on. I suspect there are no “wrong” choices! :+1:

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23

I think the Lp12 upgrades are very expensive and never ending. To go Keel, Ekos, Rad 2, Urika, Karousel and new cart is going to cost best part of £10k using used bits. It maybe better to go for new turntable. I spoke to my dealer about 3 years ago when I upgraded to Cirkus and Kore and he said next upgrade should be Radikal. Since then Rad 2 and Karousel has come out. He also said that a Keel and Ekos of some kind would be next on list.

A 52 in comparison can be bought for around £2500 or 252 for £3500. 52s are coming up fairly regularly but before POTs 8 upgrade and without a service. So I may need to factor that in.

A 552DR for £11k to £14k can be bought and would no doubt be a huge upgrade on the 82 and Supercap 2.

I have full Fraim and turntable is on a wall shelf. So no problems there.

My new financial situation will mean I will be alot better off but won’t have funds to do a full LP12 upgrade or 552 to start with.

A 52 is possible and some LP12 upgrades are possible.

Listening to @NickofWimbledon going for completely new LP12 makes sense rather than separate upgrades. £16k to £18k to get used high spec LP12.

Keel, Karousel, Ekos mk 2 £5k used. Rad 2 £4500. Urika £1300. And then cart £1500 to £3500 for cart.

This is why my thoughts were to just get a Rad 1 used for around £1600, Urika for £1300 and new MC cart. If this isn’t worth doing then perhaps I should stay put and save for a new used top spec turntable. Other option is to go Keel, Ekos 2 and Karousel only and keep Lingo 1. Thoughts ? I play 45s so not sure about Armageddon.

I could wait 6 months, save up and just get a 552 and leave the LP12 altogether.

Then save more for LP12 upgrades.

Or just get a 52 and leave it at that for now.

I guess I don’t know about my future health so was looking at some quick wins rather than breaking the bank.

Or do nothing at all.

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24

The best of luck with your health. My wife works in cancer care and I have nothing but respect for those dealing with a diagnosis and for those doing or supporting the treatment.

I cannot advise on the comparative improvements, however I will say I am very pleased with my 52/SC. I pushed the boat out and purchased one which was slightly overpriced, but its a later one and is in good condition. I immediately serviced it, probably too early with class A and its a sparkling combination with the CDS.

Hope it all goes well for you

DH

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25

That’s all good, and I take your point that a 52 is great vfm and that a gradual ‘see how far you go’ approach makes sense on the LP12. However…

With luck or patience, a major LP12 change may cost less than you think!

£9000 to a dealer got me an LP12 with Stiletto, Skorpion base, Keel, Radikal 1, Ekos1, and a nearly new Kleos. I swapped in the Karousel from my old LP12 and gave that the perfectly good Cirkus from the Stiletto LP12. I already have 52 and Superline.

That leaves me with a really high spec source.

If I don’t weaken and export it to Tassie, I am likely to sell the spare LP12 with Lingo 4, Kore, Ekos and a near- new Krystal (from Grahams), and a rather effective Tramp-beating baseboard from SRM. I can even add the brilliant DV75 mk4 phono stage.

I reckon that lot is worth more than £3.5K. If that is right, it makes my net extra cost for the Stiletto at most £5.5K.

That’s not as cheap as getting a 52, but I still think it’s pretty good SQ per £.

Good luck!

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26

You did really well with that deal. I can get Rad 1 and Urika for under £3k. An Ekos 2 for £1500 and a used Keel. Karousel extra and Rad 2 upgrade £1900. That would be quite a table. I will seek out dealers once I get the funds and see what they can do. I reckon my LP12 is worth £2000 to £2500. I really like the current plinth. It looks lovely. It is Cirkus and Kore and Akito arm upgraded and serviced by Audio Origami.

I was thinking of just getting some upgrades done to LP12. Or do I go whole hog in one hit?

A 52 may have to be done regardless. It seems like a small amount and is relevant to my current system.

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27

I would go for the 52-I think the lift fron 82 was major-more sublime and beautiful. For the LP12 I love my Radikal2/Keel/Karosel/Aro! The better DVs are also worth considering. Works well with Urika 1. This is in my summerhouse system and I feel I am done as it is now!

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28

Another vote for a 52 from me. I moved from an NDX/82/SC/CB250 to the same with a 52 and my system just sounded completely right, probably for the first time… a lot has changed with my system since then, including taking my xerxes X out of long term storage and rediscovering vinyl. The 52/SC remains. It also survived week home demo of a vitus ri101mk2 which i was keen to like due to the much smaller form factor. I’ve never heard a 552 and some day i will give that a go. The 52 in my opinion is a very special amplifier - its just right!

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29

I would definitely go 52 and then upgrade the deck with the Rad2 and Karousel. For me going from a KRad1 to KRad2 was bigger than going from Kore/Armageddon to KRad1 and Keel.

Demoing cartridges at my dealer recently reminded how source first is the way to go.

They use a Lexmark Turntable for easy cartridge swaps. Even with that deck going into a 552/500/SCM50, my near Klimax LP12 with 252SC/NC250 is a much better and engaging listen.

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30

The reality is that if you get a 52 you may stop thinking about the 552 altogether. I certainly don’t feel any urge whatsoever to change my 52/135s. Also, adding the Karousel to your Kore you will probably find amazing. For not a huge investment, you may decide it’s your forever system.

I decided a long time ago that Radikal/Keel/Ekos/Kandid was a no go area for me mainly due to the excruciating cost and the fine performance of my current tt. It’s a different turntable at that level and vfm is questionable compared to L4/Kore/Ittok/DV. If that’s where you want to go then as advised above, buy a used Klimax spec to replace yours. You won’t do it any cheaper.

Regardless, enjoy the process of spending money :blush:

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31

Dan, If you have a look in the fishy place, you may find a 52 for sale (not mine - its not going anywhere). They often come up anyway, so if this one isnt to your liking I am sure another will turn up sooner or later.

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32

I think what you say makes sense. I am thinking 52, Karousel, Rad 1, Urika and MC cart and leave it there for a while. I had the tonearm substantially upgraded by Audio Origami a few years back. The turntable sounds pretty good as is. Maybe get the Rad 2, Ekos and Keel done some other time. My phono stage and Lingo 1 are currently on one shelf, replacing with a Rad 1 and Urika will look more coherent in my system as well as providing an improved power supply and phono stage.

I will seek out a few dealers nearer the time. I have to wait until 1st July before I can do anything. A 52 is top of list. I will probably keep my 82.

Spending £5k or £6k on upgrades feels okay come July. Spending £11k to £14k pushes me out of my comfort zone at the moment.

Upgrades can go on and on. It’s about getting good system synergy and may a few LP12 upgrades and the 52 will be all what’s needed.

Or like you say @Paul52135 just get 52 and Karousel done and leave it there.

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33

A 52 sounds like a wonderful upgrade for your 135’s. And tremendous VFM I’m sure.

Not that you’d be dissapointed with a 552DR either!

Decisions, decision. A very nice problem to have…

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34

For the LP12 I would seriously consider a good second hand Ekos2 and a refurbished Troika. You will have the k-boards in the 52 and you are done. Yes you may need to service the 52. LP12s were lesser with this arm and cartridge before cirkus and kore. Maybe a serviced Lingo 2 to replace your Lingo 1 (mains filter removed?)
Shoot me down if you think this is a bad idea (possibly troika is not a good idea), but LP12 upgrade prices can get very expensive.
I would even do the deck after getting a sorted 52

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35

Yes the Lingo 1 has been serviced and the mains filter removed. Have been looking at used Ekos 2 as well. Ekos 2 is around £1500.

So Karousel seems to be big upgrade. Alternative to getting Rad 1 and Urika is to get the Ekos 2, maybe even keep current cart.

Might be an idea to do things slowly. Could get Rad 1 for £1600 and leave Urika and use existing MM phono stage.

A 52 seems logical and will work well with 135s.

I think right now it’s better to do a few things rather than max out.

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36

I think getting 52 first is best idea too. You speak perfect sense @anon17458420

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37

And yes, it gets crazy money for LP12 upgrades. If spending £11k to £14k on LP12 uogrades I think it would be better to go straight to 552 so it benefits my 3 sources. And I don’t want to spend that right now.

The pension money is about consolidating. Not getting rid of debt and creating more.

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38

I think many have suggested the 52 so a lot of people making good sense. I have heard great sources into an olive system 52 with a 250 driving Naim SL2 and it was really good. Sources were a new CDS3 plus XPS2 and LP12 with Ekos2 and Troika into the k-boards.

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39

Some people might say I’m completely wrong but my next LP12 upgrades will be a kore and kandid where I keep the lingo2 and Linto. Ok maybe a karousel

First things first. The new listening room where we render breeze blocks with weberlite F with an added colour. No plasterboard. A nice nude oak flooring. Should be finished possibly before or just after the french summer holidays

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40

Karousel is the fundamental upgrade for the heart of the deck it’s not anywhere near the most expensive upgrade and is the new foundation.
Makes no sense to spend good money on anything other than that for a starter. :+1:t2:

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41

I agree. Much more importantly, so does @Dan_M from comments above.

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