I found innuos zenith mk3 > TT2 was marginally better than nds with xps dr source wise (some on here use tt2 to drive their speakers direct depending how radical you want to be)
As stated i think innuos to a usb dac more economical route for bang for buck but you’d still need an SN2/SN3
If you ever did get upgrade itch number of ways to improve Sq wise also e.g. hi cap dr , m scaler , innuos phoenix to further enhance zenith performance
Would recommend demoing though with what you have and maybe a USB dac to see what you prefer
Can’t really respond on Roon core, but in that case the Innuos or Melco are used only as Nas/ Server, in Ethernet mode. So if there is a sound quality difference between different servers up the range in UPNP mode, it should be the same for server used as Roon core ( as the local files are streamed from that server).
I have an Innuos Zen and Nova, it was purchased as a replacement for my Unitiserve, largely at the time for Roon core and Qobuz. There is a degree of overlap re streaming platforms. I have a Chord Dave and Etude due Friday so will switch Innuos to streaming, Roon and server modes. The Innuos is a very flexible bit of kit. In the future the Zen may benefit from adding the Phoenix reclocker, or upgrade to Innuos Statement, not had a chance to try these options yet.
For now I have Nds/555 dr / Melco n1zh2 and I am satisfied. Probably one day I will upgrade to Nd555 second hand.
My response you quoted was referring to Charles64 questioning, because he runs the Zen into the Nova with Audiophileo cable converter. He wonders if a Zennith mk3 would still be a nice upgrade, connected in usb/spdif to the Nova.
The reason then of my response you quoted here.
I did have a Chord Qutest for a time (some of it concurrent with owning the Nova), so I was able to compare the Innuos ZM3 into the Chord’s USB (& then onto some old Caspian mono blocks) vs the Innuos into the Nova (though at that time I didn’t have the Audiophilleo in the chain).
The Nova outperformed that particular Roksan/Chord combo, I have to say.
doesn’t surprise me that TBH i would think you’d need TT2 level with SN2/3 to better it (which you’d like to think it should do as it costs quite a bit more vs the NOVA)
So I managed to loan a Zenith MK3 from a local dealer. I’ve got it for two weeks.
I set it up last night, and had a play.
First impressions: it’s a significant leap up from my ZM3/PSU combo.
I transferred a lot of FLAC files onto it from ZM3 and got Qobuz linked to it too.
Second impression - after mere minutes - was what a surprising superiority Qobuz now has over stored files of the same album in the same format. Not just a bit better, which was not always the case previously, but way beyond.
Left me thinking about the need for such a large library of FLAC files other than for back up of my CD horde.
In terms of playback preference, it’s Qobuz every time, so far.
I’ve finally let go of Roon (for now. For good?), as Qobuz from the Zenith3 into the AP, using iPeng, is sonically better.
Also, Qobuz and album art work in iPeng is all restored now. I’m not exactly sure what I did but it’s all there.
Had a few emails back and forth with Innuos support and that was very interesting in regard to the SQ between Innuos engine vs Roon engine, and the much touted, anticipated new Innuos app that’s on its way, as mentioned by several here.
I’ll have a few hours to listen today and onwards in this home demo.
Sounding very promising.
I will swerve around the oft-mentioned cliches and metaphors - night&day, lifting a veil, wider this, greater that - as they are objectively meaningless apart from to me in my own set up and room.
It’s just better. Let’s say. Appreciably so, to my ageing ears.
good to hear worked well for you yes big difference when using USB from it with the RAM buffering
i still using ROON myself but with the squeezbox experimental mode, also with DSP upsampling to 192, power of2, smooth linear phase enabled as found zenith handles this fine and gave a further marginal uplift in SQ to close gap between ROON and Upnp mode further (worth still tinkering and trying what you like, like myself will retry ipeng again off your comments)
personally find local HiRes flac still superior even with EtherRegen helping my quobuz streaming
one thing would highly recommend for it if you do get it is a quality mains cable and some cera-discs equipment supports as both made another good lift on the SQ detail and a less digital feel to the sound (i have 4 cera discs 2 under the SSD drive 1 then against each of the rear feet, one being under the torodial PS the other under the streaming board)
good to hear the AP working well too as gives me good hopes for when i demo the phoenix usb reclocker
Thanks for suggesting some interesting tips and tweaks.
Early days, as yet, but I’m very positive about the Zenith.
I tried Roon Core setting on Innuos & that’s how I compared it to iPeng. However, the Experimental Squeezlite (that I really wanted to test) wouldn’t enable my Audiophilleo, though just standard Roon Core would.
On the Zen Mini I selected Innous DAC in the player ouput box (instead of the AP option) and this accessed/enabled Roon Experimental.
The same menu box on the Zenith only shows the AP, which is fine, but I can’t now compare Roon Exp.
shame i take it that was why you tried the innuos tech team (may be worth asking them is feasible at least you try a/b if you they manage to get it working) i remember took me a few attempts to get the ROON experimental mode to work (have to enable squeezelite player in ROON and a number of other things, but cant quite remember what i did to get it going)
Yes, I’ll have a look at the permutations in settings.
As a side note, I’ve had the AP+PP for just over a week now, and only with the Zenith does it sound like I’m getting it’s full on capabilities. Suppose that’s fairly obvious to report!
There is also an upgrade option to change the Zen into pretty much a Zenith, it’s something I’m planning on doing very soon.
Effectively what they do is replace / upgrade the internals (caps, power supply, etc) and change from a HDD to an SSD which is pretty much an upgrade to the Zenith.
I couldn’t run to a Zenith when I purchased my Zen, but am able to do this now as an upgrade.
Just thought I’d mention it.
Thanks for the feedback, to me the Zenith is an instant wow upgrade, with the AP more so, I very rarely listen to Hires ripped content always opting for Qobuz, which for me since the last Innuos firmware is the dogs bollocks.
I think the app will arrive soon, hoping for Roon type curation, reckon we may see another firmware update.
Note I forgot to say you can return certain Innuos products to base for upgrades, I think there is a Zenith 2 to a 3, not a very well advertised service.
HI @ChrisH, Thanks, I have read about this previously but I am unsure re the details such as cost, would it require shipping to Portugal or would certain dealers undertake the work ?
I didn’t consider the Zenith at time of buying the Zen because I was viewing it as a Unitiserve replacement with Roon capability. Now I am using it as a streamer/source into a Chord Dave I am looking at upgrading, possibly by adding the Phoenix reclocker, this is another option.
I recently upgraded my Roon Core (ROCK) from a basic NUC build into a fanless case with a NVME M.2 SSD for the OS and it does sound better. Theoretically there shouldn’t be any sound difference between players, esp over ethernet, but there still may be but better hardware you will hear. I have an internal SSD for my music store in the ROCK case and it sounds marginally better than Qobuz but really not enough to even think about (local files tend to be just a db or two louder and the bass a bit deeper) and of course so much has to do with the individual recording and mastering. Glad you found something you like!
To go from a Zen Mk3 2TB to a Zenith Mk3 2TB it is currently £1650 for the PSU and storage changeover.
To go from 2TB to 1TB it is £1200. (might sound daft, but if someone has a lot of excess capacity, and CD / download purchases have slowed down, this might make sense)
I don’t believe the unit goes back to Portugal HQ, I think the work is done in UK.
I was told to allow for roughly 2 weeks turnaround.
Hope this helps.
I will also have a listen to the PhoenixNET reclocker when it comes out, apparently due end of 2020/beginning 2021.
The Innuos team tell me this should be a good upgrade. Not sure I have the room for another half size box, but I’ll have a listen anyway!
yes big difference when using USB from it with the RAM buffering