UPnP: should I give up?

I have a music library on a Mac mini, on the same mesh WiFi network as my Uniti Nova.

The Mac runs 24/7 and has served music and video to Sonos and Plex devices for over 5 years without any problem.

I’ve tried sharing my music using Plex and Asset UPnP and neither work robustly. Asset appears in the Naim app maybe 1/10 times. When it appears, I can browse and play music, but within minutes Asset will disappear from the list of servers in the Naim app - despite this, the album will play to the end. So it’s not a network issue per se. It seems to be more of a discoverability issue.

I’ve just started a Roon trial, and with the core app installed on the same Mac, I’ve been able to navigate and play my music without any problems (so far).

So is UPnP just terrible? Or should my experience be better than this?

Roon is nice, but I resent the high cost when (if it worked) the Naim app should be adequate for my needs.

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UPnP is reliable for me. For it to fail so often for you, there has to be an unresolved issue somewhere in your network, either in the Nova or elsewhere. So I wouldn’t give up yet…unless you choose to stock with Roon, but that shouldn’t be necessary.

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I am afraid it sounds like a poor implementation on your Wifi product setup. Which consumer ‘mesh’ product are you using?
If the product doesn’t handle IGMP and IPv4 discovery properly … try enabling IGMP snooping on your Wifi, or if enabled try disabling (you may need to enable on your router and switch if they have the option)… you do need this at least on your Wifi and many modern products now support this as multicast on home networks is used more and more often.
This almost certainly won’t be UPnP specific, but could affect Wifi printer discovery, NAS discovery and various other things.
If you use Roon, then if it can it uses IPv6 which often gets round this… which appears to be the case for you…

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It’s not something I recognise with any UPnP, I’ve used Synology’s own, Plex, Minimserver & now Asset (and that is the best of them all) They all worked perfectly in as much my iPad app never failed to connect.
Forget the thread title, it isn’t UPnP, I suspect it’s something to do with your wifi & probably how the mesh is set up. Have another go at describing your set up, include all the brand name & models of the bits, don’t forget to include distances, walls in between etc.

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I would say networking issues, as my backup UPnP server running on RPi2 is solidly reliable.
However since I introduced a suitable Roon playback path to the NDS, no looking back, all in, with a Lifetime subscription.

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Thank you for the replies - I take comfort in your positive experiences and that it should be better than it is.

In terms of gear, I have a Sky Hub with WiFi disabled that is hardwired into a Google WiFi device. This is 1m away from the Naim. My Mac is upstairs connected wirelessly to the other Google device.

It’s a reasonably small modern house, with thin internal walls. I get decent signal throughout the home, and this is my only issue. I can VNC to the Mac from an iPad, print wirelessly, stream to Sonos and Chromecast devices. Almost everything I watch on TV is streamed without issue.

I suppose I could try reenabling the WiFi on my Sky router, and connecting the Mac and Naim to this, and see if the behaviour is different. But any other suggestions are gratefully received…

This may be the source of your problem.

Sounds like you have some dchp problems … something is probably hammering away at the ip server … its definitely fixable…you need to check your router settings…

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I too suspect Sky Hub with WiFi disabled & hardwired into a Google WiFi & would focus on that as a starting point
Sonos does not use your home wifi, it has its own propriety wireless system.
I suspect the devises that do work have different discovery methods, might not be affected by something like IMGP.
Do you have everything in the house on DHCP

Re ‘small modern house’ I wonder why do you need a mesh system. I have a medium large 2 story house with brick & block internal walls. The BT wireless hub is located in a ground floor corner of the property & I get wifi all over, included in the garage & 25/35m into the garden area. IMO the mesh thing is not required in most average sized houses & (BT TV advertising) is marketing exploitation.

Is the Sky Hub still adding as the DHCP server? Is the Google WfI device just adding a WAP?
You many have 2 DHCP servers both trying to issue IP addresses and controlling leases on them.

It is also recommended setting static IP address for the Naim player, by reserving IP addresses in the DHCP server configuration. This should reduce the ‘discovery’ process, as it can always be found on the same address.

Simon.

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I think we could be on to something… re-enabling the Sky hub WiFi and connecting my Mac, iPad and Nova to this and Asset is immediately visible on the Naim app, and plays well on the Nova.

My reason for not wanting to use the WiFi on the supplied Sky router is that it’s only 2.4ghz and absolutely terrible… My downstream line speed is 64Mbps but in the next room over WiFi I get barely 9Mbps.

I used to have an AirPort Extreme that provided far superior wireless coverage, but retired this earlier this year in favour of the Google mesh system. This gave decent WiFi throughout the home.

This niggling issue is the only problem I’ve encountered with it… I suppose I need to look more into what settings need changing on the Sky router to work with the Google WiFi.

Good point on both Sky & Google managing IP addresses

I don’t agree at all about static IP addresses, who said its ‘recommended’
I played with static & found it failed on odd occasions, went back to DHCP & never had a failure (ITR) since.
My old static IP numbers that were in the BT licence range have all been retained in BT DHCP system when I changed my wireless hub’s (twice)

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I used to use an AirPort Extreme to run my network, with an Express as range extender and a Sky router as DHCP server. Sky gave me an uprated router which runs 802.11ac, so I tried taking out the Extreme and using that instead, just to reduce the clutter. It works just as well as the all-Apple setup.

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Agreed! If 2 DHCP servers are running in your home, forget ever getting it to work properly.

On your retired Apple wifi system, you likely let the home router do DHCP, and had the Airport Extreme in a mode where it did not run a DHCP function. (That’s how I use mine.) I’m not familiar with the Google product, but perhaps it needs the same setting change.

We do use and pay for Roon at home, but I find its User Interface helpful and “worth it.” It also has a client for the Mac, so I can actually control playback from my Macbook as well as iDevices; that’s also a nice feature.

Thanks very much for the pointers everyone. When I initially setup Google WiFi it didn’t say anything about disabling DHCP on the router. I tried disabling it anyway at the time, but then I couldn’t get the Google WiFi to find the internet. After a while I gave up and turned it back on, and all seemed well.

Today I’ve disabled DHCP on the Sky router and factory reset the Google WiFi. I’ve also given the Google WiFi a reserved IP on the router. Then during the Google setup I’ve manually pointed it to the IP and gateway of the router, rather than relying on DHCP to sort it all out.

It’s taken a lot of rebooting of boxes, but finally things seem to be working as they should… Fingers crossed!

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I have done the same, albeit with a different ISP.

I did have DHCP related problems, which have vanished since I removed Huawei Set Top Box. It appeared the STB had a conflict with my Smart TV or BluRay Player. Even though the box appeared to have locked up it was still active on the network causing problems.

I use UPnP on a Mac mini and have had no problems with it except those ocurring during the time I had the Huawei STB on my network. I haven’t spent time trying to diagnose in any detail what was going on. I’m happy that replacing it with a Sky Q box fixed it and I get other benefits too and its cheaper.

It is the problem with networks when something doesn’t work as expected then all manner of things connected to the netwirk can be the source of the problem.

I often think static addresses would be preferable to dynamic allocation, but I also think it would be a pain for most consumers. (By the way has anybody noticed streamers sound better when they have an odd numbered IP address and the NAS has an even one no more than 5 away?)

I know “dynamic” is a correct word in DHCP, but with all the wireless hubs I’ve had, once set the IP address doesn’t change so hardly dynamic. My current NDX, NAS & iPad have the same IP addresses I reserved 3 hubs ago but they are all on DHCP including the one I originally set the static addresses on

… err … really … :rofl:

Well I haven’t noticed it, but I thought somebody else might have. If my memory serves me well I read it on a Scandinavian site when I researching the correct torque to use on the screws in mains plugs.

Ahhh a Scandinavian hi-fi forum, that explains it all. :rofl: :crazy_face:

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Looks at calender, no it’s not April 1st.