Uptone Etherregen 50 or 75 Ohm

To my limited knowledge, RAAT is what Roon is using? So you mean Naim doesn’t sound as good using Roon ?

I am now using a Mac as Roon Core and NDX2 as endpoint, is this an example of UpnP stream?

Please excuse my poor knowledge on this.

No, as didn’t have the budget for a 2nd 555 supply (DR or non-DR).
Plus had reservations about buying a 2nd 555 to only be using 1 of the 5 supply rails (22v), the other 3 (15v, 12v5 & 10v) being completely unused.

I did write to Naim, a few years ago, when the concept of splitting the power supply across 2 units for the NDS was hot topic, to suggest they create a 555DR-D and 555DR-A spin off, with just the components for the Digial and Analogue supplies, and the ability to add further regulation and improvements to the ‘A’ supply.

Which I suppose they have done, with the additional DR regulation on the ‘under board’ of the Analogue stage of the ND555.
Plus they can still sell 2 555DR units at full price to NDS/ND555 customers.

These additional green stages here

However the NDS still has the same 1.2V and 3.3V regulators downstream of these additions.
Hence if you feed the Analogue side with a better lower noise supply, than the 555DR provides, the same benefit is delivered.

BTW The Power Supply is not DIY but just not Naim, so unable to reference the manufacturer, but it’s not the Israeli one! They are UK based and well respected for their Power Supply designs, some saying their version of the 555 being superior. Now I can’t comment as I just have the Analogue supply, with the Digital supply still be provided by a 555DR unit.
For me, this combination makes better sense, in terms of focusing on whether the improvements will have best benefit.

I hear you Dunc, this is what I fear all the investment is wasted with Naim as they don’t offer ext. clock in.
Whether the re-clock is done on the LAN data stream or the SPDIF signal stream.

However as mentioned above, my current set up re-clocking SPDIF signal before NDS as DAC does improve SQ quite a bit.

Not sure what else could contribute this .

Listen to what your ears are telling you, theories are just theories, unless Steve Sells etc wades into explain.

RAAT is the streaming protocol used by Roon between the Roon Core and the Endpoints. However you can also use the LMS Squeeze protocol, AirPlay, Chromecast and Sonos in a heterogeneous environment.

So you have Roon Core running on a Mac, and then the NDX2 as a Roon Endpoint outputting S/PDIF into the Digital input of the NDS. No UPnP used.

You could have used a UPnP Bridge to ‘Roonify’ the NDS, so that the stream from Roon is presented as a UPnP directly to the NDS, transcoded to WAV also.
Also a dedicated platform for Roon Core will be better than using a general purpose multitasking computer. Either a ROCK install on a NUC or a Roon Nucleus (which is a NUC in a fancy case, prebuilt with SSD & RAM and preinstalled with ROCK).

So I use a NUC7i7DNK which is the same board as the Nucleus+
But when I built it I used a faster NVMe SSD and 16GB RAM.
However for a long time, I used a NUC5i3MYBE unit without issue and with DSP filters. The NUC7 is a faster to scan new music and a bit snappier on the GUI.

But yes, there are some ND555/NDX2 users that are commenting that the SQ with a UPnP stream, controlled by the Naim App, is better than the native Roon input.

I am certainly no expert, but going by what experts actually say, that actually design this stuff say, thats now it all works.
But as always if you prefer the sound when you ro something then i say go with it.

Absolutely, I was just commenting that use of external clocks into switches trying to improve on the internal one is a minefield for potentially little gain.

The Innuos Phoenixnet have ‘designed in’ a OCXO circuit, at considerable cost, hence the price tag difference. However if looking at different switches, many don’t make substantial improvements to the clocking, or signal isolation and are just mass produced units in a new box with an additional voltage regulator circuit.

Furthermore improvements to the WAN/LAN networking can give benefit, moving away from use of ISP provided equipment for LAN has been well explored through the use of commercial Cisco switches.
This is lesser of a minefield, but network and protocol optimisation can overcome some of the issues of Gen1 units instead of just upgrading to the latest & greatest (unless you are the manufacturer of course, who encourages and promotes such consumer behaviour).

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Apologies, I was taking this topic off subject, with my recent experience with Power Supplies for the NDS.
Just it was in my ‘3 next steps’ options

Ah I see, yes as in my previous reply, I no longer able to Roonify my NDS due to the new replacement streaming board, hence using NDX2.

In a critical A/B compare using native Naim app vs Roon (NDX2 as end point) on Qobuz , I preferred the Roon route in SQ.

I am aware someone preferred the Naim app route better. May be that is the RAAT method with Roon making the difference in SQ.

The idea of upgrading to a ND555 is simply hoping all that happening in ND555 can at least match my current setup by ditching the NDX2 and the Mutec MC3/Ref10 to reduce box count.

Something can only be tested once I have the ND555 and hopefully is a easy decision as I am getting more and more tired in adding more stuff in the system to find out if it is good or bad as it create even more variations and questions such as cable/PSU…etc in the mix.

You are probably right here. Plus trade-in/2nd hand value of the NDX2, NDS, Mutec MC3/REF10 should be equal to a ND555 or close enough.

2 members here observed noticeable improvement in sound when using an external clock for the Etheregen. One with the Mutec , the second with a Sotm. They were also daisy chaining the ER, which gave a lot of boxes ( 2 ER, 2 lps or a big lps with 2 rails like the top Sean Jacobs one, then the clock). Both were using the Nd555 with twin ps.
I had before the Etheregen with a very good external ps. Went for the PhoenixNet and never looked back.


Absolute agreed, the $ I spent on the Cisco switch was a very surprising upgrade to me was a huge improvement over the relatively cheap cost. I actuall added a 2nd Cisco of the same model just to test if it can further clean up noise, but not so much to my ears.

Etherregen is another good example of what a clean and low noise LAN data can sound with relatively low cost if get a used one even with the supplied adapter.

It has been a good journey for me to understand more playing digital content whether locally or streaming.

Interesting to know French.
Was also wondering if the Phoenix can reduce box count further by replacing the Cisco + ER

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So why don’t you try a CLK signal from the Mutec Ref10 and feed it into the ER?
It has

  • 2 x 10 MHz reference clock BNC output, 50 Ω terminated, unbalanced

You just need a 50ohn Clock cable with BNC connectors, as a normal Digital cable for S/DPIF is 75ohm.

This may reduce the noise/improve the feed going into the NDX2 before the S/PDIF output is taken.

Yea, I just don’t have any 50 Ohm cable , as I never thought I will be putting a GBP2.5k external clock to a switch when I get the 50Ohm ER. :sweat_smile:

It is kind of relieving when French said someone tried and found it is worth it.
Perhaps they are already using at least a 500 series system or Statement to hear the improvement.

I am only using the humble 252/300 which will remain so for a very very long time.

A quick shop online should source you something to try with. Obviously, Clock cables come in at different price points, but a few $ should scratch this itch, given you already have the Ref10 sat there!

Cable choices in itself is a completely topic, especially when it comes to clock cable according to many.

I myself is a fan of BJC, might see if they offer something there.

will keep this post updated once I get to test it.

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After having my EtherREGEN since May ‘19 and enjoying the A->B isolation with my NDS. First improvement to the ER was an upgrade was with a Farad3 supply, now just entered the “external clock” arena, with a pre-owned AfterDark OCXO ‘King’ clock and matching power supply (many thanks to a Roon forum member).

At present out-of-the-box, just using the supplied BNC Clock cable for the 75ohm output into my ER on to the 75ohm clock input and DC cable.

Powered up the clock Thursday evening, and straight away something has changed for the better, transients, layering better, and I believe “powered up settling time” improves things.
And yes, a few days in, improved separation within the sound stage and detail is there. Looking forward to the next 30-days of continued improvement.

Now I believe the Clock is a Sine wave, so I believe a Mini-Circuits BLP-10.7-75+ filter should further improve the Clock signal into the ER.

Is this the best place to start, once the settling improvements stabilise?

I already have the Clock unit on the Hifi rack (Aavik A5 with Titanium Pulsar Points) on top of a marble plinth isolated with a sheet of Sorbothane. The Power supply has a JPS Labs Power AC+ powering it, left over from a mains-powered headphone amplifier (its replacement, a Bakoon HPA-21 has rechargeable batteries)

So, Clock cable and DC power cable are in scope for further changes - a new rabbit hole :laughing:

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