@Toby, you would not like this thread to follow other "T’ threads? I know sir Dane is keeping an eye on this. 
Yes. Your right.
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I moved to AZ from Chicago (city proper) which is in the news regularly for gun violence. That violence is relegated to a handful of neighborhoods in the city and comprises a very small portion of the total geography. I didn’t own a gun the entire time I lived in Chicago and doing so was illegal then. My first flat out of college was in a run down neighborhood and I once had to beat a potential home intruder to prevent him from accessing my home. I was 25 years old at the time and could handle myself in a physical altercation. I lived in affluent areas after that and never had a care.
I moved to an affluent area of Scottsdale, AZ in 2005 and didn’t have to worry about crime too much. But this state is awash in firearms. It’s very gun friendly here (opposite of Chicago). People carry firearms in public though you don’t see it much in my neighborhood. It made me nervous to be unarmed here so I bought a hand gun, a HK .45 USP. It’s an exceptional hand gun and of high quality workmanship. It sits in a small gun safe in my closet should I ever need it which is unlikely. Having a handgun for home protection is not absurd here at all. I know people who have military grade weapons and enough of them to start a small war if they wanted to. They’re wealthy and consider themselves Libertarians which is basically code for rich people who don’t want to pay taxes. I regularly point out the folly of their ideology to their chagrin.
You should take a cursory glance at my country’s history if you want some perspective on the role of fire arms in our culture. There’s a strong anti govt sentiment in the fabric here. Much of it is ironic and not based in reality but it’s there. Fwiw, I’ve taken my European/Asia/Latin American friends who come here shooting and every one of them loved the experience. We are different that’s for sure. I’m sure I can find some absurd things in your country, we’re a diverse people.
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I do understand the historical context and just how embedded firearms are part and parcel of US culture. I get that. The issue I see, looking in from the outside, is that there could come an inflection, or tipping point, where it is clearly understood that the perceived benefits of gun ownership becomes less attractive and a well-ordered, safe society becomes a priority. I don’t know when, or if, you guys will reach that point but there will come a point when people come to demand the right to actually go about their business in safety and without fear. At some point these demands will build, in the same way that pressures build for social change elsewhere - the Levellers and the Chartists, for example, in the UK. The desire for social order came out of the Victorian era and was embedded in the early part of the last century. I sense such a change could come to the United States at some point, and I believe it will indeed become necessary if there isn’t to be a descent into chaos, unfortunately.
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If you own a firearm for protection:
- That gun is statistically very unlikely to ever be used to shoot anyone at all, but if it is…
- The person who is most likely to be shot by it is you
- The next most likely people to be shot with your gun are your family members
- The next most likely group are your friends
- The chance of it ever being used to shoot a bad guy is so small that it is effectively zero.
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Shifting demographics will eventually put us over the hump on gun control. The younger generations don’t care about guns for the most part and don’t want to live in a society where you have to be armed 24/7. But we’re a ways off from that I suspect. There’ll be a lot more carnage before we get there.
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For many Americans that is the case. Averages being what they are.
Statistics for sure. We all think we’re exceptional. But we’re wrong (on average).
Interestingly, there is perhaps a case for having a replica gun for self-protection. Although the numbers are widely disputed, “brandishing” a gun to ward off violence is much more common than actually firing one, and way, way more common than actually shooting a bad guy. Don’t try that approach whilst black or brown when there are police about though. The advantage of a replica is that you can’t shoot yourself, your family or your friends with it.
(Odd counterpoint: Replica guns are often harder to licence and procure than are real guns in many parts of the US)
Even at what seem like staggering frequency rates, you are still extremely unlikely to be shot whilst in the US. Unless you:
- Own a gun
- Hang around with people who have guns (hunting, gangs etc.)
- Engage in violent crime
Exactly right. I work for a news organization that won a Pulitzer (among many other gongs) for our coverage of the Parkland shooting. Those kids are still out there, changing hearts and minds across the US. But it’s going to take time. And, as you say, the carnage will continue.
And for all the non-Americans reading this, most of here are appalled and disgusted too.
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If Citizens in US are legally allowed to purchase and carry guns what are the statistics on every day road rage?
Not sure. While a gun could make a road rage incident much worse, there is always the moderating effect of the knowledge that who you are raging against might have one. That’s the (specious) argument that more guns means less crime in a nutshell. Beguiling, but demonstrably bu!!$4i+.
Wow! Once again you are point on!
Yes, its a sad day all across our country. So far, 30 senseless killing occuring in less than twelve hours apart.
And yes HH, the Donald asked his supporters what can be done against an invasion @ the border?
And one individual loudly replied, shoot them😢
And the Donald laughed it off! El Paso Texas
This type of behavior is nothing new but the Donald has taken it from ‘Dog Whistling’ to fog horning!
I don’t think he can last that much longer, he’s impacting the market with his tariffs and China isn’t buying it!!!
The ‘One Percenters’ that control a major percentage of the worlds wealth will not allow this foolishness to continue.
JMHO!
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This is true! Perhaps this is why great empires have risen and fallen throughout history!
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Here’s the thing, the folks who fall on the wrong side of those averages don’t tend to be the kinds of folks that employ this sort of logic.
To expand on my experience growing up in the rural midwest. Me and my brothers were not allowed to touch a firearm until we had completed a gun safety class taught at our local armory and promulgated by the NRA. This was back in the late 70s early 80s before the NRA became the lobbying outfit it is today engaging in propaganda to create fear among gun owners. My father instilled in us great respect for firearms and their safe handling. We were probably the exception to the norm then and definitely now. I think the typical American has a careless attitude wrt owning firearms and the responsibility that entails.
As for my own experience, I’ve been shot at and used my weapons for self defense (military) and somehow I’m here to tell about it. In my own household I don’t have to worry about kids or untrained people handling my firearms since it’s just me and my girlfriend and the gun stays in the safe and my house has multiple levels of security. I see this as another chapter in the lowest common denominator punishing the rest of us or what I like to call “Why we can’t have nice things.”
Yes, as I’ve said, I’m a veteran and a gun owner and I’d like to see some real gun control. The GOP is entrenched on this and they’re owned by the NRA. Though the NRA is under attack currently and it’s at its weakest point I’ve seen in a long time. Their membership is declining and their business contacts and donors are getting shamed and cutting ties. It’s happening but it’s going to take some time.
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Your thoughtful post expresses exactly how I feel. As an American, I go between anger at the stupidity of such a large number of my fellow citizens to sadness at so much senseless lost of life to hope at being able to change it all for the better next year when we vote. Have faith in us, I’m confident we can make it right.
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Yes, when was America thriving, jobs were plentiful, @ the apex of our empire! I remember during the sixties after the riot high-school drop-outs were purchasing cadillacs. Now college graduates can’t find work!
Yes, this is an new era:
The Agricultural era
The Industrial era
The Dot-com era
The Postmodern era
And American is just as polarized as it was during the Civil War!
We don’t need a wall to prevent terrorists from entering the US, we’ve been cultivating home-grown terrorist during the last 3 decades!
JMHO!
Down here in NZ firearms are much less available, yet the mosque shootings still happened. I can’t help feeling we are looking in the wrong places for solutions. Having said that I’m still not sure where the solutions lay.
Think John Lennon had the answer, but that’s another story. It’s just sad, I can’t imagine just shooting someone Indiscriminately, I can’t comprehend that kind of thinking.
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