My current problem is that favourites is limited to a (in my view) small number of entries. With some 2700 albums selected in Qobuz, favourites only has about 1000 entries. The oldest Qobuz drop off the favourites list! When one deletes a newish entry from the favourites list, an older Qobuz album is added. When a new favourite is added, the oldest entry drops from the favourites list.
This is confirmed by Naim support, who had the balls to state that I was using the Naim app incorrectly. I should not have that âenormousâ number of albums in Qobuz. In order to use the aim app, I should manage my music library differently.
Since that obnoxious reply, I have been experimenting with ROON. Works like a charm for anything related to music library management.
Unfortunately, using ROON to play from Qobuz to NDX2 gives loss in sound quality. Did a single blind test, and could clearly identify roon playback versus Naim play que playback: 10 out of 10 correctly identified.
I am blocked by the (very) poor quality of SW development in the NAIM app. The NDX2 produces great sound, but getting it to play the song I want with optimal sound quality is a nightmare.
Whaaat? I didnât notice this, but I didnât check either. The answer by support is ridiculous. I have the same number of favorites in the Qobuz app (obviously), and previously in the Tidal app, and also in the Bluesound app with Tidal (but no Qobuz then), and not have/had this issue or the unresponsiveness anywhere.
That said, whatever the support said, I am not getting this vibe at all in the beta group!
I also switched to Roon simply because managing a large number of favs is impossible in any other app I tried. I can hear no difference, there is no technical reason for a difference, and Naim people stated that itâs highly optimized and there should be none. Do you have weird DSP settings, or volume leveling enabled in Roon (which should hardly make a difference in SQ, but lowers the volume generally, which may sound worse)
I sympathise with Naim here - 2700 albums is more like an entire collection, a library, rather than favourites. The Naim app simply isnât designed to work how you want it to. Whether it should be is another debate entirely.
Favorites are the only choice in Qobuz, Tidal, and the Naim app. To remember/mark an album, you have to favorite it. So some (many?) people will have many favorites.
There is no responsiveness problem with this many favorites in any other app that I used (native Tidal/Qobuz, but also BlueSound which is very much similar to Naim and also has to use the external Tidal/Qobuz APIs. Roon is probably not a fair comparison because it can rely on the Core). So if I have 2000 Qobuz favorites because it just works, and then start using Naim, it will not work by default. This is simply not acceptable. I am not going to start deleting stuff.
Of course, as mentioned in my previous post, the attitude evident in this support answer is not at all what I have been getting from the developers. There might just be some confusion in support.
And yes, the binary favorite yes/no choice in Qobuz/Tidal is no good either, because indeed it is a poor solution that I have to favorite every album I want to remember. (There are albums I want to remember that are not favorites). My solution is Roon
And as we discussed before, as per Steve, there is a small difference between the datapath through the NDX2 for the play que and the Roon implementation.
That is why I wanted to be sure and did a single blind test. To my dismay (I like the user interface of Roon a lot) I could recognize 10 out 10 times which is Roon, and which is play que. I hear what I hear.
So I am trying to resign myself to use Roon for music library management, and go through the pesky trouble of using the Naim app for concentrated listening. Not what I can in mind well I layed out several thousand euros for my NDX2. So excuse me when I am pissed off by below par Naim app SW development.
I donât believe Steve said it would sound inferior. Indeed many on here with high spec Naim systems find UPnP the same as RAAT. If it sounds bad then they may be that your configuration is not correct; was lossless showing on the delivery?
I run my Naim components (NDX2, CORE, NAC252) on system automation thru the Naim app on the latest version of iOS on a dedicated mini iPad. The app is limited in functionality as compared just to iTunes configuration of Playlists, ratings, etc. The Naim app has no real data base searching capability, just a list search. Would love to assign ratings (beyond just favorites) to tunes, albums and then compile smart Playlists. I can compile a list or queue of music from different sources (CORE, TIDAL) that will play for hours and hours that I can then save it as a playlist. The app often loses its place and requires a complete wake-upâŚunless I leave the app open and the iPad plugged into a power source. The app works quite effectively switching sources, or tunes or albums within the source or between sources.
Of course Steve did not say it would sound worse, he just said the RAAT implementation does not use an important mechanism the is used by the play que. So I did the (single blind) test. Qobuz HQ on RAAT versus Qobuz HQ on play que. On Roon it showed lossless. I heard what I heard! Play que won it hands down, recognised the difference in SQ 10 on 10 times.
Donât believe me? No discussion required. Do the test yourself, and share your results please.
Yes and timing/buffering is the be all - end all in sound quality. Steve did as much in previous exchanges, but he never said it in one go (smart guy).
There is no networking system in the world that does not buffer. Itâs just that with Roon it does not use the extralarge 50 MB buffer in the streamer as it is not necessary on a local network. That does not mean the data is playing in the wrong order or whatever seem to think. Whatever, you decided that there is a difference, I wonât convince you, and last time already you did not want to ask Steve about your misunderstanding. Itâs your choice, enjoy what you are hearing, not a problem!
Of course the byte streams is not played in âthe incorrect orderâ. But Naim designed its dataflow with âa large bufferâ after the last network element and before the actual ditigital-to-analogue translation. And that buffer is NOT USED in the (Roon prescribed) RAAT implementation.
Why are you so insistent that there can be no difference? These is a (small) technical difference. Undeniably so!
I cannot help wondering if due to that difference there may be a timing issue there⌠Now, to me itâs clear that Steve cannot come out an state officially that this is a less-then-optimal implementation choice from Roon.
So am left wondering âdoes that difference have a consequence on SQâ in my set-up?? Perhaps it âshould notâ on a perfect local network, but i have never come across a home network that is perfect.
I was not sure, so I tested it. Et voilĂ : In peronal my experience on my installation I hear (always the sale) small significant difference. To me, Roon is slightly inferior
Anyone want to deny that? Please perform a listening test! It is simple: set it up so that you cannot see whether Roon app or the Naim app is sending the command to the NDX2. Have your tester switch the music back and forth between the sources (and sometimes not - so sometimes 2 or 3 times the same source after itself - this is important). Can you hear a difference between source 1 and 2? If not, you hear no difference in SQ. If you do, only note for each listening moment whether you think this is source 1 or source 2. Have your tester note the real source. Only look at the comparison after full completion of the test. If you do not get a near-perfect score on which source was playing at what time, the difference is in your brain, not in the SQ. If you get above 80%, itâs in the SQ.
Is there any news on when this sluggishness of the Naim app wil
be corrected? Just want to know when it will take less then 5 minutes to make my NDX2 switch to another source using the Naim app on Android.
