I’ve had the recent misfortune of the relay in the amp section of my 20 yr old sub going kaput. Consequently, I’m looking at a replacement unit. Now I won’t name names, nor get into product specifics here, but I had one question that relates to my impending upgrade.
My historical usage of a sub, was within my home theatre. But as I have a pair of bookshelf speakers in my hi-fi, their biggest limitation is with the bass they are capable of producing. This had me wondering, is there any mileage in using a subwoofer for both home theatre AND hi-fi; as it appears some manufacturers are producing units that can perform both duties these days?
I use a subwoofer exclusively for hi-fi in my 2-channel set-up. Get a high quality sub and spend the the requisite time dialing it in so the integration is seamless and you’ll benefit greatly. Well worthwhile.
As long as the sub is one for music rather than just managing great thumps for dramatic movie effects I believe that subs can be very good at improving the sound when using small speakers or any lacking in bass, but to work effectively it is important that they are positioned carefully and suitable adjusted for phase and frequency cutoff to work with the main speakers, however I don’t have personal experience having always gone for full range speakers.
Thanks for your input on this. My ProAcs are pretty good across the aural spectrum. But the replacement model I’m looking at professes to work well for both; home theatre and hi-fi. They’re a reputable, established brand within their field, and the same manufacturer as the unit that has died on me. Which I had around 20 yrs of great service from, to be fair.
I’d just never considered utilising a subwoofer in my stereo system - so was keen to hear of others experiences really.
Yes, I’m using bookshelf speakers. What prompted me to add a sub was that I had replaced my old floorstanding speakers with the aforementioned bookshelves due to the former being too bass-heavy for the small listening space they were in. I loved the new sound but as someone who indulges in loud, heavy music and one that goes to gigs on the semi-regular I was missing that visceral physicality you can only get with larger speakers.
So, after some research I added a sub mainly on the notion that a sub can be tuned to fit into even a modest space whereas a larger speaker leaves you with little recourse to pare back the lower frequencies. And that’s pretty much how things have shaken out.
In my experience definitely not. Subs belong in home theatre systems. I’ve had experience of several subs many years ago now and none of them were successful for music. I found it impossible to get all the settings right. What was correct for one piece of music was wrong for another. Subs with small speakers doesn’t sound anything like large speakers. The effect is completely different. To my ears it just sounds like a small pair of speakers with added bass - which of course is exactly what it is. If I were you I would stick to your bookshelf speakers as they are and just accept their limitations.
All speakers have limitations anyway, and some of the most highly regarded speakers (eg. Linn Kans, LS3/5a’s) are tiny mini monitors. Small speakers have some distinct advantages over large ones. I recall many years ago when I had Kans that I was expressing regret to my dealer at being unable to afford the much larger Isobariks. He told me that he had several customers who had ‘upgraded’ from Kans to Isobariks and then subsequently returned to Kans, because the Kans were faster and more musical.
I added a pair of subwoofers to my system to provide more oomph to the Martin Logan’s ESL speakers. The system is in a very large room and I thought the powered subwoofers would be beneficial.
The do add to the overall sound quality but not as much as I had hoped. In hindsight, I should have addressed the speakers first.
I have a BK double gem alongside naim SBLs. They pair very well.
It was quite easy to get the position right and the phase, but gain and crossover took longer and I’d do it differently for each album if I could but overall I’m happy the compromise.
However, if I was setting it up for home cinema/TV I’d be doing it differently.
what kind(s) of music do you listen to? i found that setting crossover and gain for chamber scale classical & jazz music (80%of my listening) where i wanted a subtle enhancement gave far too much (for me) bass on rock etc. if it is possible i would ask your dealer for a lengthy home demo. otherwise i would look at pre-loved gear where you won’t lose too much if it doesn’t work out
For most of the subs employed in ‘hifi’ space, you aren’t adjusting a crossover - you’re adjusting a low-pass filter on the sub input and hoping it matches the natural rolloff of the ‘mains’. If you feel the need to change it for different music types, or even per-album, you’ve not got it completely right yet. If you’re trying to do it ‘by ear’ with a music source, the result may be skewed by the spectral content of the music. I know it can work, but making it work well is non-trivial…
Rel do some wonderful subs at not silly money, yes a faff to get dialled in but worth it (buy from a good dealer and get some help with setting them up)
Set up properly the Rel’s really do bring an immersive sound experience. I have said many times they dont just add to the bass they make the whole listening experience come alive….
I have a Velodyne DD12 sub which can be optimised for music and for movies. You can program and store several profiles and move between them using the remote control. The combination of the remote and the setup microphone enables easy adjustment from the listening position. Wouldn’t be without it - don’t write off subs without trying a good one!
For srpetting up a sub I suggest using a tool such as REW (free software, though you’ll also need a measuring mic - the one they recommend is relatively inexpensive that maybe £120-£130 these days new, but you can readily get the same one on eBay for maybe 2/3 of that, and if you have no other use for it sell on at little or no loss. I f find it a great tool for setting up speakers and room generally, but for a sub it would enable you readily to see when crossover is right, seamless with no overlap, slope of cut off his right, and phase is right, a and of course gain (volume) setting. If you set it upright it should sound right across any music genre, though of course if you want it to make low bass boom louder with any genre you can always do that with its volume control!
With all things being equal a subwoofer is the most important component. The goal is to effectively align, calibrate, dial in a subwoofer so that the subwoofer integrates seamlessly with the mains and disappears into the soundstage with a deep, sharp, tight fisted, fast and powerful punchy sub bass.
I can’t agree that the sub is the most important component. To say that implies that all systems using small speakers without a sub are inferior because of this. That, in my experience, is just not the case. eg. Kans (properly set up and driven) are probably the most musical speakers I’ve ever heard.
Yes I know that’s the goal. I found it impossible to achieve no matter what. If others have managed it then fair enough. I certainly couldn’t and I tried hard enough.
