Vinyl, to keep or not? A crisis of conscience

Hi-Fi Corner
21

I have the exact same deck, well a previous iteration, and because I have about 400 LPs I still keep it as some of those LPs I don’t have a digital copy and some CD masters are very poor.

all in all it might get 20 hours in a good year.

as you have no vinyl collection to speak of, ditch vinyl and enjoy your music unless you have a lot of time, a lot of money and a tendency towards OCD.

BTW, don’t turn off the motor when turning over the record. Rega recommend leaving it spinning for the totality of your session.

.sjb

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22

That was by far the best synopsis of this ongoing issue of vinyl versus digital.

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23

The Rega should be a fine player though I don’t think you can expect it to compete with turntables costing a lot more, in the same way I know my Nova is not going to give me the streaming quality an NDX 2 will let alone an ND 555.

I will say however I’ve never been convinced by CD/digital playback musically.

I’ve always loved vinyl, AND the interaction of swapping sides, listening through etc.

With digital I rarely listen to a whole album (or side) and the convenience probably detracts from the experience in my view.

Admittedly I have hundreds if not thousands of LPs and I’m coming from a different starting point. I agree modern vinyl is expensive compared to the alternatives, but for a good album it’s worth paying if you enjoy it. All formats have good and bad quality masterings.

Personally, I suspect vinyl may not be for you, equally I’d probably not rush to sell the stuff either, give it more time, maybe try and pick up some old 2nd hand bargains and see what older pressings were like if you can put up with surface noise/pops/clicks - that’s the funny thing, most of us vinyl lovers are more than happy to accept the format’s problems because for some strange reason we enjoy the experience more overall.

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While I too do not want to see a Digital vs analogue debate, because both have merits, It is just that
having heard in my home either owned or for a reasonable amount of time, a LinnCd12, cdx2/xps2
Ndac a Linn Ikemi, and some Mcintosh CD players…to my ears digital hits a wall,

I do own the Ikemi, then heard the cd12, nicely built and was nice, but so is a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. As I ascended into the upper end of the digital world…the same word kept coming back to me…“electronic”. not bad and can be good but my ears have heard better…and then at what cost ??..so for me, I guess I am old school, but am always willing to listen.

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I can’t speak in terms of turntable design but I am under the impression that Rega are “old school” turntable designers that havent strayed form the analogue path. But then again, I could be wrong in my impressions.

The cable from Rega goes into RCA of Phone stage and then into the RCA of the Nova.

As for buying new stuff, that is a definite no go area for me. I’m a “one box” kind of guy and aim to have as few boxes as possible in my living room. Plus I don’t subscribe to the thought that one has to spend £££ to be able to find the magic of vinyl (which in the majority of album releasses is slightly better than CD).

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Antz, it looks like I don’t have that bug, which it is strange since I was brought up with my music coming mainly from cassettes. I had (still have it in loft) a nice Technics RS-TR575 deck and loved it. I particularly liked the fact that it had Auto-reverse which made life a lot easier. However, I’m not that lazy and I could cope with getting up and turning the records. But what kills the vibe for me is the extortionate prices of vinyl nowadays. Not only that but the sound quality is hit and miss (even on quite a few 180g records that I have). And if I can hear the difference in quality in my deck then I would be able to hear it even more in a more advanced deck.

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That is likely true however if I find buying vinyl expensive then buying vinyl to record to Reel and then store away would certainly be even more expensive:blush:

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Chris, it looks like you have perfectly summarised most of the niggles which I have. I find all of that too much hassle and that it distracts from the enjoyment of music.

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Thanks John. I was not aware of this. It looks like I have been complicating things even further. :flushed:

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From my viewpoint, I can happily sit and listen to a whole album as it plays along (and I do this with all the cd/digital albums I listen to). I very rarely skip a track.

Don’t get me wrong, I am happy to pay for a good quality mastering/pressing. But the problem with vinyl is that you don’t know what you are getting. And it’s a rather expensive way of finding out.

I will keep the whole thing a bit longer and see if it grows on me but I fear I may have to sell it along eventually. :pensive:

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Thank you Richard. Definitely the best synopsis to this case.

I came to vinyl for two main reasons. 1. I was helping someone I knew with a house move and they were going to throw away about 200 vinyl albums that they did not want any longer and I felt sorry to dump them so I gave them a home. An ecclectic mixture of classic, opera, rock, pop and so on. All old stuff and nothing modern. There’s Beatles, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Abba, Diana Ross, Mozart, Bach and even Bucks Fizz in there. One of the most ecclectic mixes I have ever seen in my life. 2. I joined a Vinyl forum to enquire more and that was it. I fell for the usual hype that most forums create.

I didnt want to buy a cheap deck as that might not give me a decent sound and I did not want to go too expensive in case I didnt take to it. So i thought the Rega was a good choice. I even bought a Knosti Disco Antistat, some distilled water and medical grade alcohol to clean the old records with.

Over the past 2 and a half years I have bought about 50 albums which include some remastered Beatles and mostly 180g releasses. I have been listening to them ocasionally.

I bought the Nova about 2 months ago and it’s been a game changer. I have never listened and enjoyed so much radio, streaming and genres of music. The sound is sublime and it’s made me listen to genres that I would never like before. Then I realised that the rescued vinyl has sat on the shelves all this time and has been neither cleaned nor listened to.

One day I was listening to Beth Ditto’s album through Spotify and having liked it I bought the vinyl edition. And that put the nail on the coffin. The sound quality from vinyl is a lot worse than even the Spotify stream. Since then every time I listen to one of the vinyl albums I will also listen to it on Cd/streaming and by comparing I realised that I am not noticing a substantial difference. Well not that substantial to justify buying the vinyl version for £15+.

I’m off in a few days so i will dedicate one day to cleaning the old vinyls and then listen to them just to see if I am missing something (if anything just to make the effort of saving them and the money spent, worth it).

But if, as you say, in order to get the best out of the format I have to spend £££ on equipment then I will likely surrender and just sell now before suffering further losses.

I think it is also very likely that I do not have an emotional connection with vinyl like those people that grew up with it. At my parents house I still have my 700 strong collection of cassettes and whenever I go there on holidays to see them I do have a listen and really enjoy the sound. And a lot of those cassettes were just copies of originals (or even copies of copies of copies of originals).

PS: I have replied to a few of the posts on here and they show as separate posts. The reason being that I can’t see a multi-quote option. Apologies if I have missed it. :flushed:

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I wouldn’t say £15 is exorbitant or even expensive when you take into account production costs and also the pleasure you can get from listening to an LP again and again.
If though your deck is fairly low end and the pressings you are buying aren’t great then I can see why you’re feeling the way you are.
Vinyl reproduction can be a real labor of love and involve a lot of work to get right but if you do the rewards are great.
You can’t expect a record deck costing a few hundred pounds to compete with a streamer that costs a few thousand just because it’s a record deck!

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33

@iliria, regardless of the accolades some may give modern vinyl for SQ, it pales in comparison to vintage vinyl. The all-analog period of vinyl had an essence that is missing in digitally recorded, modern mastered, heavy weight vinyl. I recently got McCartney’s “Egypt Station” and Paul Simon’s “In The Blue Light” LPs, both recorded in 2018 from artists using the highest quality recording processes. Sure, these LPs sound ok and register higher DR than their CD counterparts. Good enough for recently recorded music. But I’m now listening to the Eagles’ first two studio albums on original vinyl and Christ, there’s no comparison for the level of involvement, texture, warmth, timbre, and humanness conveyed in vinyl pressed 45+ years ago. The modern stuff definitely has an edginess to it.The old stuff is smooth as silk.

My suggestion (and perhaps your finding) is that if you’re going to listen to primarily digitally recorded modern music you may be wasting your time, money and efforts on vinyl. New LPs are rather expensive and unfortunately the trendiness of “vinyl” has driven up prices of vintage-era LPs as well.

Go out and find a used original LP of something like Fleetwood Mac’s “Rumours”, Neil Young’s “Harvest” or maybe Boston’s debut in decent shape. Clean it on a RCM, and give that a spin. If you don’t find something more genuinely beguiling about the quality of those vinyls’ SQ then you’re probably wasting your time and money with a TT.

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34

ilira

i hear what you are saying for me I the development in my sytem was a source first approah first purchased the deck in 2003 SH from dealer, couple of years later had some changes - Hercules so 45 was an option and new DV10X cartridge which was a big improvement, as ever uprgaded from CDX2/XPS to NDX and I thought that was a good move, then on Pre from 202/HCDR to 282 and that made another up lift to wholesystem then i wanted to move to 250DR, did lots of demos and was on the phone to dealer when he mentioned he had a SH 300 coming in, almost the same money as 250DR so I went for it, then DR in 2016 - then last year I spent around £4,000 on deck Lingo 4 (on offer) Kore, Khan top plate, tranquilty and DV20x - the difference it’s now as a source beyond my NDX to the point I have put on hold NDX2 to focus on the deck and pos 252/SC - being in my 50’s I was also a Technics owner in my earlier years, moved to CD’s but cupid shot that Vinyl arrow - AGAIN! from my experence and demos an LP12 needs to be around arcuate level to show what it can do which for me is just more music

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Highlight the text you want to quote, then hit the grey box that appears saying “quote”. If you want to add another, click/tap on the screen somewhere outside the text entry box, then you can scroll up to find. Helpfully it saves what you’ve tyoed so far, and on another part of the screen (right on the iPad app as I type this, and IIRC below the entry box on the iPhone app) you can see a preview of what you’ve typed. Here’s a second quote from yours:

I found cassette audibly inferior to vinyl, and so didn’t see the point other than (illegal) copies of other people’s LPs or for car/mobile listening - and their longevity was not great (especially in mobile machinery!) However I had one original recording that was never released in any other format, which originally I only ever listened to via a copy to avoid risk of loss of the original, despite the further reduced quality - and later ripped the original to CD, and now it is on my server - but the sound quality is among the worst I have.

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36

Just my 2d worth based upon my own experiences.

I went through much the same about a decade ago. Like everyone of my age, massively into music when at uni. and it was vinyl or nothing (okay cassette but…). After a hiatus of nearly 3 decades I decided to resurrect the hifi and vinyl seemed the way to go. Invested a couple of grand in Rega etc… and a few hundred quid on some new albums. Within 6 months I was having doubts about the long term viability. Say what you want but the vinyl thing is, long term, only going to be the domain of the few. The fad that is going through the youngsters at the moment is simply that, a fad. The surge of streamed music means that, as a medium, it will have less and less appeal to those of the smartphone generation. At the moment vinyl is fairly easy to get hold of (heck it’s next to checkout at Sainsburys!) but if the popularity plummets then that’s not going to be the case. Plus I don’t like the £15-£20 per album, I don’t really like the vinyl sound (it’s too 'warm. and too far from the true - IMHO), and I really don’t like the hiss and pops. Add it all up and, after 6 months, I decided digital was the logical answer with the best future. e.g. I didn’t want to have an expensive white elephant and a few grand in LPs sat there in 20 years time (assuming I live that long). My advice is, if you are having doubts, then stop now before you throw more money at it. If you have any doubts then it’s not for you. You’ve got to 100% embrace vinyl or the little niggles start to grow.

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37

@iliria

A tricky decision to make, especially if you are pretty new to vinyl. Is it really worth vinyl taking up precious space in relation to how often records are played - and the sound quality achieved with the RP3. I guess the first thing to do would be to try a better turntable in your system to see if that gives you the lift in quality compare to ripped CDs? This comparison would give you a definite and immediate answer if the extra expense on a top flight deck is worthwhile.

From my perspective, I recently bought an RP6 to play my records. I only have a couple of hundred LPs retained from a much larger collection that was sold off at the height of the CD frenzy. For now I’ll be keeping hold of them as I’m quite enjoying the experience exploring these albums that meant a huge amount to me as a teenager. Not sure how long this romanticised nostalgia fest will continue and I get frustrated with overall faff, but for now its fun.

Not all positive though. Reacquainting myself with these discs, I’m really surprised at the startling variation in sound quality between records (after cleaning). Some very good indeed, others distinctly average to poor, and some unlistenable. Comparatively, my CD rips seem more consistent and of course new release HD albums sound even better, even on my modest UQ2. Before buying the RP6 I was considering spending 2-3K and going all in on a Cymbiosis built LP12 or a Rega RP8 /10. I’m now REALLY glad I didn’t.

The convenience of local streaming from CD rips and HD downloads are by far my favoured source of playback. And the comparative prices for used CDs compared to vinyl means a wider variety of albums available for literally pennies. Vinyl pricing cannot compete on this point.

If you do decide to sell, now is the time to do so and ride the wave of vinyl nostalgia that’s inflating the secondhand LP prices. Good luck with your decision.

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Thanks Randy. I assumed this was the case, and with my TT arriving Monday (too bad I don’t have the weekend to play with it!) I’ve started to get a few lp’s to supplement what my wife has. I’ve assumed that it’s only AAA that we’re interested in.

In my simplistic mind, if I’m listening to modern day digital recordings, digitally mastered, and then pressed to vinyl, what I’m “mostly” hearing via vinyl is the riaa curve. I have a REALLY nice digital front end in my hi fi; I’ll conclude that it cannot be bested by the same tracks on DDA vinyl.

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Not necessarily Bart.

I’d wager that with equivalent hi-end front ends, the new Kate Bush reissues on vinyl may even outdo their digital equivalents. These are mastered straight from hi resolution files by Bernie Grundman. So, go figure…

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Interesting! I have those on hi res digital (we’ve not made it all the way through), so I may have to pick up the LP’s and we can do the experiment ourselves. :grin:

BTW there is a big backlog on that Pro-Ject rcm; the usual online sellers here in the States all have none in stock.