I know what you are saying and it does make you think all about it
If i didnt have my rossini, i would just get the Vitus sia030, put in the phono and dac modules and add speakers. This is as i have been told a cracking system and comes in under Ā£40k and i dont disbelieve it.
Glad you like it Dunc, but i would take as much time as the dealer will allow before jumping ship. As others have pointed out, the love for this amp may wain and you might start missing the Naim sound. Anyway, all the best.
The thing is once you try something else and especially the vitus sia range being true class A, the rhythm, the grip is all there along with much better soundstage, details, textures etc and you start to realise that the urgency it adds is not so great unless you play like i said rock music all the time, its been really nice listening ro my music and relishing as tracks that are just laid back and a bit slower now are, if they are ment to be.
Its hard to explain as you need to really try it for yourself, but at the same time you really need to leave your Naim head outside
I have seen some people who left the Naim sound and then came back, but there are also people who finally have made their choices.
All the best with your decision, Dunc.
Think that was aimed at the Gryphon diablo 300.
I certainly havenāt missed my NDS, SBLās, etc and canāt see me missing the 500 right now
Morning Dunc. As Gazza says above, but thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
You mentioned at one point, that the introduction of the 025 made you adjust your Facts positioning. Please would it be possible for you to elaborate on this? ATB Peter
I shall wait with my congratulations till your demo week has gone
Sound like serial box swoppers
The easy way to work that one out, John, is to have a listen for yourself I jumped ship (to Gryphon) because I wanted something different from my hifi. All Duncās observations are entirely in line with my own. I donāt know of any other gear that plays like Naim does and if thatās your bag youāre on a winner. I was very happy for some years. Perhaps I just got a bit older! But if you want less boxes and a more effortless, but high level sound you have to make a change.
Err - thatās the first Iāve read on the internet of Diabloās going back to base for work. Theyāre massively over-engineered, beautifully finished and hold their used value as well as Naim does - which is saying something at the luxury end.
Your journey and your findings are a mirror of my own. The only flag Iād fly, Dunc, is to warn against being led into buying something without checking one or two other brands. I almost made that mistake and it would have been very costly at every level. Accuphase is excellent; I went with Gryphon; Pass Labs also worth a look. Iām confident I went with the best out there for me, considering all factors, because I demoād other brands. That was critical for me because I donāt want to ever change gear again!
Great to read how fired up you are about the Vitus sound and thank you for sharing your detailed observations. How are you finding it handles piano vs. Naim?
Like others, I recommend giving yourself time to get used to it after the initial wow. I fell for the Linn LK1/LK2 (with Linn Saras) on first acquaintance many years ago and, boy, was that a purchase I regretted!
Mike, itās funny you should mention piano. I saw Angela Hewitt last year, playing her Fazioli which shortly after was dropped by the removal people and had to be scrapped. That Fazioli has a very distinctive sound and the live sound was uncannily similar to the sound I get at home on her recordings played on the same instrument. The ability to render piano like the real thing is something Naim does incredibly well.
Iād urge Dunc to really take his time on this decision. Itās so easy to think something is clearly better only to discover over time that itās merely different and that you are listening to music less. Thatās not to say that the preference for Vitus wonāt persist for 10 or 20 years, simply to do whatever is possible to ensure that the decision is made with as much confidence as possible.
Iāve tried various speakers and cables over the years. One example was Chord Odyssey, which I found much clearer and more organised than NacA5, with better detail and separation. It was only after a few months that I realised I was listening less and that my attention wandered from the music more readily. Once I reinstated the boring old Naim wires it was like the musical enjoyment and engagement had returned. Not such a big deal with Ā£200 wires, but a much bigger deal with a Ā£20,000 amplifier. I imagine the dealer wouldnāt be happy to do a six month home loan though!
I donāt subscribe to this concept of taste in hifi changing over time. It should render music as a real and natural thing. Musical tastes might change - mine certainly have - but the acid test is still whether it sounds real, whatever it might be.
I agree with a lot of that. It is why I donāt believe short term blind A/B/X testing is useful.
The Fazioli has a great sound and she was understandably heartbroken. And of course Steinways and Bosendorfers and Yamahas also have their own distinctive sounds. The big thing is that all of them are not just stringed instruments but percussion instruments. They have hammers that strike the keys. A lot of so-called high-end hi-fi misses that. Iād certainly be interested to hear if Dunc finds the SIA025 an exception.
Well i guess the real acid test will be Monday, as i plan to fire up the naim once again and see if the magic hits me or not, obviously i will plug it all in tomorrow morning, so it has afew days to warm up.
As for piano, that sounds even better, as do all the instruments and voices, more detail, but its just easier to hear.
But all this remember is just my view, on my system, in my room. The naim amps sounded lovely and i could have quite easily lived forever with them both, if i hadnāt popped this into the mix, hwo knows what the future will bring, and never say never as naim could come out with something that i prefer over this, but right now even if things were the other way round, the vitus Ā£40k and the naim Ā£19k, the one i would be dreaming about is the vitus, its probably down to the class A more than anything else as its been a game changer for them it seams.
Please Dunc
walking through this thread again it seems to me that there is a high-end market for a super integrated amp like Vitus, Gryphon, DāAgostino, Nagra or even McIntoshā¦interesting to see if Naim enters this āone-box-does-it-allā market!
Surely whatever the manufacture, integrated boxes are not a great long term business plan?
I think Naim do now need to up there game and start going forward with a revised business plan and a strategy to keep enthusiasts compelled that multiple boxes is still the way forward even in this day and age if you seek absolute audio nirvana.
In my opinion the classic and 500 range have certainly reached the point that they now need an update with a clear direction and marketing strategy going forward.
Even if a product revision wasnāt leaps ahead sonically, if the marketing can get behind it in the right way it will still pull everything forward rather than stagnating like it currently is.
Itās simply a case that some people prefer the sound of other things. No amount of marketing will change what their ears tell them. There is a whole world outside of Naim and if people prefer something else itās their choice. There is no point changing something just for the sake of it.
I visited perhaps 5 dealers during the last year in Paris. They all said me that the most of their sells go with integrated, even in high end like Soulution, Ch precisionā¦or McIntosh.
Itās nowadays askings from people to have not a lot of boxes.
I agree that Naim should think for that.
They could manage with the Statement amp and pre to have the ps inside the box. So a real super integrated would really be appealing I feel.