Vitus integrated amp v 552/500

Well i guess the real acid test will be Monday, as i plan to fire up the naim once again and see if the magic hits me or not, obviously i will plug it all in tomorrow morning, so it has afew days to warm up.

As for piano, that sounds even better, as do all the instruments and voices, more detail, but its just easier to hear.

But all this remember is just my view, on my system, in my room. The naim amps sounded lovely and i could have quite easily lived forever with them both, if i hadn’t popped this into the mix, hwo knows what the future will bring, and never say never as naim could come out with something that i prefer over this, but right now even if things were the other way round, the vitus £40k and the naim £19k, the one i would be dreaming about is the vitus, its probably down to the class A more than anything else as its been a game changer for them it seams.

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Please Dunc :pray:

walking through this thread again it seems to me that there is a high-end market for a super integrated amp like Vitus, Gryphon, D’Agostino, Nagra or even McIntosh…interesting to see if Naim enters this “one-box-does-it-all” market!

Surely whatever the manufacture, integrated boxes are not a great long term business plan?

I think Naim do now need to up there game and start going forward with a revised business plan and a strategy to keep enthusiasts compelled that multiple boxes is still the way forward even in this day and age if you seek absolute audio nirvana.

In my opinion the classic and 500 range have certainly reached the point that they now need an update with a clear direction and marketing strategy going forward.
Even if a product revision wasn’t leaps ahead sonically, if the marketing can get behind it in the right way it will still pull everything forward rather than stagnating like it currently is.

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It’s simply a case that some people prefer the sound of other things. No amount of marketing will change what their ears tell them. There is a whole world outside of Naim and if people prefer something else it’s their choice. There is no point changing something just for the sake of it.

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I visited perhaps 5 dealers during the last year in Paris. They all said me that the most of their sells go with integrated, even in high end like Soulution, Ch precision…or McIntosh.
It’s nowadays askings from people to have not a lot of boxes.
I agree that Naim should think for that.
They could manage with the Statement amp and pre to have the ps inside the box. So a real super integrated would really be appealing I feel.

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I agree with you to a point but let’s face it.

The trend is less boxes. You yourself have said this is one of the reasons you have ended up where you are, the best you can get from 4 boxes.

I know it’s not the same but bathrooms, kitchens, decoration, cars. It all moves on and tastes change and 90% of the time they are all replaced not out of necessity/not broke don’t fix it.

I just think Naim need to get behind things a bit more and refresh things. All sorts of ways, brand ambassadors, weekly podcasts, a questions answered YouTube channel. All sorts.
Don’t know if anyone has seen the Dynaudio YouTube channel to know what I mean.

From where I stand as I see it, Hifi isn’t like it was and always was a niche but with society today and the trend for not absolute audio quality right though the industry and the producers themselves. You need to be moving forward not going stagnant. (Meaning in general, not saying they are). Obviously I have no clue what they have going on behind closed doors.

I think there is always a place for audio quality. The problem is you can get better quality with a 1 box solution. Or so it appears.

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In my view Naim are far from stagnant. A look at their turnover tells the story. No amount of podcasts and YouTube videos will make people buy lots of boxes if they only want one or two.

The idea of the Meganait has been raised many times and it’s a highly attractive proposition. Another factor is the Naim upgrade path. My 272/555/300 would cost £19,000 new, but can be built up to in stages. There aren’t that many people who can or would drop £20,000 on a Vitus in one go. It’s just different, both in approach and in sound. I certainly don’t feel qualified to advise Naim. They have been doing ok for nearly 50 years and it’s always been the case that people have decided to get off the Naim route and pursue other directions.

I just hope that the Vitus provides Dunc what he is looking for long term. It’s a very attractive proposition.

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It’s simply that some people prefer what some of these alternatives provide. It’s not possible to say categorically that they provide ‘better quality’, merely that they provide a sound that some may prefer. I’ve not heard a Vitus or a Gryphon and am in no position to say which I like best. Even if I preferred a Vitus it wouldn’t be because it was better, merely that I preferred it.

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Also some people might prefer say 3x15kg boxes to 1x60kg… but dump, plug and play is certainly attractive.

This I completely agree on 100%

I know what your saying and I do get it :+1:t2:. Yes I am not up on the worlds audio thinking and what things like globally.
Just saying what I see personally and agree I am just one silly old customer. :joy:

Beyond Naim politics, R&D resulting in future products, as several here suggests a one- box plug and play solution is to me hugely attractive. Needless to say after 35 years of Naim ownership and several iterations of OCD- riddled active systems, I would have to be 100% sure I really like the sound from a given alternative.
I think we all want our musical reproduction to sound as believable as at all possible within the limitations of our listening spaces. I also think we all know, what an acoustic guitar and a piano sounds like in real life not to mention a vocal.
My niggling thought is a doubt, as to how much we actually hear to that effect even at the forever aspiring 500 Series level ( a now 20 year concept now retailing at £40 K+).
Add to this loosing a full Fraim stack to only one low level with 2x555 PSs at the bottom and 1 tall level with the CDP 555 head at the top- simples. Not to mention no more cable dressing to worry about.
I am in the process of arranging a home dem of the SIA 030 ( launched in 2019) mid to late June once some of this Covid- madness lifts. I shall be very happy to report my findings then :+1:t3: ATB Peter

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I think a ‘MegaNait’ would be attractive too but where would it position in terms of performance, appearance and price in the Naim range? - and what would be the foundations for the investment/business case for it, as given its likely price, it would be in a forest of competitor products. If one assumed the ND555 would be the chosen front-end then, stylistically, it would need to match (and be something like a 500 head?).

Naim’s prices and many of their competitors have seen material above-inflation increases over the last 12 years or so when, for many, real incomes have fallen. Pushing R&D and capital allocation in to what could be a smaller-market space wouldn’t be my 1st thought when looking at a raft of wider-market opportunities.

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the thing about vitus is that the starting prices are already too expensive, and that too for an integrated… Naim have always told us the preamp is more important than the power amp, and having heard demonstrations of this - I would always choose a preamp over a power amp upgrade myself. So more power isn’t always the issue.

The jump from Nap 200 to 250 to 300 to 500 aren’t about watts. They have everything to do with more engineering to improve sound quality.

The beauty of Naim is that one can always start small - in this case the latest example is Qb2 and go up as far as one wants to and can afford…

Also about Class A/B amps, in the first few watts (the most important ones) aren’t Naim power amps operating in class A anyway?

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It would be nice to think Naim could compete (and shine) in this segment space but there are many challenges along this route.

As I understand things (and borne of previous authoritative comment somewhere on the Forum), the NAP500 was/is as powerful as an amp could be designed within the then ruling design philosophy and limitations (i.e. non-Class A). Obviously, the Statement project is something entirely different and, noting, the NAP300 has some heritage from the 500.

It mustn’t be overlooked that Class A amps have different qualities to Naim’s - it’s a fundamental of Class A operation that they render more detail but at the cost of heat generation (bread proving territory!). The additional current delivery also helps enormously when relatively demanding speakers come in to play - and I think if Naim is to venture in to the ‘MegaNait’ space (with the competitors you’ve cited), it’s going to need to solve the current delivery issue and marry far better to a bigger range of speakers.

when comparing Naim to other amps, to me it is about which parts Naim amps do not have (and for a reason)

Naim amps except the statement do not have parallel transistors
Naim amps do not have inductors on their speaker terminals
Naim amps do not really encourage usage of RCA terminals

All these things make a difference to sound quality and engagement, the rhythmic qualities of Naim aren’t because of what the Naim is adding, it is because of parts that Naim does not have (for good reason)

one question I do have for vitus is - are their power amps fully regulated like the Nap 250/300/500?

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Why? Naim already has integrated amp in the form of SNx, maybe what Naim needs right now is a bigger (or better) version of SNx if there is a demand for it.

BTW, talking about the integrated amp, there is a reputable ex-Naim dealer is CA, who now is saying his top of the line integrated amp out-performs a $200,000 pre-amp/amp, I think he implicitly implies the Statement. So it is not surprising that one says this make is better than the other make, maybe it is down to one’s preferences.

I think I know who you mean, and his favorite amps are LFD. I tried one, very nice, but I prefer my SN2+HCDR by a considerable margin. He often says that he has taken 552/500 systems in trade for LFD. I can only think that these customers did not have their systems properly set up.