Just thought and remembered I’d seen something recently.
Take at look at page 3 - online - Offers - with a certain LP12 specialist based LEICS
BTW, it does take so much time. But can be fun too.
Happy hunting ( for a bargain)
R
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All Naim sources, including the NDAC and all streamers, are supplied with a DIN cable that will do a perfectly good job of connecting it to your 282. Use these to get your system up and running, make sure everything is set up correctly, and just enjoy listening to music.
If, in future, you have a bit of cash burning a hole in your pocket, maybe consider a cable upgrade. Keep an open mind, and try something that suits your budget. Send it back or sell it on if it doesn’t bring a worthwhile improvement.
Buying an expensive upgrade cable soon after you have bought the new boxes is totally pointless. You’ll have no idea if any improvements you hear are down to the cable, or the DAC.
Regarding digital cables to connect your streamer to the NDAC, I used a Naim DC1 for a while. It was too long, and too stiff to arrange in a way that didn’t look ridiculous jammed up against the wall behind my rack. I bought a £30 Mark Grant cable of a suitable length, and it sounded identical to the DC1, which I eventually sold.
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I can’t deny that you had a far more level-headed and scientific approach than I did. Although I was a professional scientist in the biomedical field, I did in fact start out intending to go into physics which had always been my primary interest. Perhaps strangely though, I’ve never really had much interest in the science surrounding hi-fi. I would never have bothered to read any text-books on acoustics or speaker design for example.
For me hi-fi was always very much about using my ears and about having fun. It was in some ways an escape from the realities of work and the last thing I wanted was to start indulging in any kind of scientific pursuit in my hobby.
I think we have a fundamentally different approach to this hobby and that’s possibly why I feel we sometimes don’t see eye-to-eye over things. I get the impression that you’re basically a measurements man, if I may say that. I’m just not. Not at all. For me it’s all about just using and trusting my ears. Not for me the blind listening test or whatever. I think both approaches are perfectly valid. It’s just a hobby and it’s whatever makes you happy. But the two approaches are sometimes pretty irreconcilable! I sometimes find it difficult to accept that you can’t just trust what you hear - you sometimes find it difficult to accept that I do just trust what I hear! But that’s OK. It can be instructive to see things from someone else’s perspective sometimes, even though we couldn’t adopt it ourselves.
As far as PB goes I agree the whole thing stretched the credibility of everyone involved in publishing that material. Probably for me though the tipping point was when JMH advocated turning your speakers around so that they fired away from you at the wall! I never tried it. Apart from anything else I thought it would just look rather silly. It just seemed like a crazy thing to do and sort of made me wake up to the fact that one couldn’t just accept the word of these self-appointed experts.
I was heavily into the whole Linn/Naim philosophy and looking back I can’t understand why I just didn’t get a huge loan when I started working and purchase a full LP12, 32/250 and Saras. I was living with my parents still and the big Isobariks would’nt have fitted their small rooms well. But Saras would have been perfect. I had zero interest in getting a car so I could have afforded to do this easily.
If I could go back though I would be looking at investing very heavily in some really excellent speakers and using say a Rega 3 and maybe Audiolab amplification until I could afford to upgrade the driving system. The speakers would have stayed with me for many years.
Still, it’s all worked out in the end. It’s just annoying that I missed out for decades on what large full-range speakers can do and instead just lived with shoe-boxes!
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We both saw the light, just at different times! My learning about hifi and in particular speaker design, was my interest in my teens, together with electronics, and I was fortunate my local library books on the subjects - it was fundamental to my assembling my first system including building my own speakers. Acoustics was introduced in my ONC (A level equivalent - the lecturer’s pet topic, so done with enthusiasm, and afterwards I did more reading around it.
As for being a “measurements man”, I am in part, but not exclusively, finding data a useful tool in Initial consideration of, for example, which speakers may be worth auditioning. But I learnt with my speaker auditioning leading to buying my first IMFs that there is more to it than the measurements can tell as all those speakers sounded so different from one another. To me measurements certainly tell something but clearly not everything, because there are things our ears can be sensitive to but not necessarily measured, or where people do measure them, sensitivity of measurement may not necessarily be adequate. But where measurement does shows differences, those can be of value.
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Morning my thoughts after reading through your thread.
My system is pretty much identical to yours apart from the speakers and I have an ndac.
I owned GS20’s for probably 10+ years and they are from memory a good speaker but not great for your setup, I moved them on for a pair of PMC twenty 26’s which I really enjoy.
I found your setup and mine to be a little edgy at times hence the ndac addition, did it cure it?
not totally but certainly helped, the setup we share for me is on the lively or in your face as some would put it, can you change it to the sound you desire easily I’m not so sure.
A speaker change will help but because like me you enjoy all types of music to get them all to sound great is not any easy task or not sure if it’s even do able.
I find depending of artist and track selection my system can sound fabulous or very in your face and I’m thinking you are getting the same, so have I got an easy solution for your problem and sorry to say no I haven’t but start by getting what you have setup correctly, do the simple things first, you mentioned that the system is stacked do you mean literally each unit on top of the other, which is not a good start at all.
Hold off spending chunks of money before you find a good dealer that can guide you or at least offer some options for the best way forward, take your time, enjoy each step.
Lastly you don’t mention how the system sounds when using the LP12, in my setup, the LP12 brings a less in your face sound, but some music is always going to sound edgy no matter what you play it through especially metal, just take your time and best of luck with your journey, sorry for the long post👍.
ps. Thought I would get your thread back on track as some times things tend to drift a little on the forum😉
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I’ve pulled the trigger on a single owner 2011 Naim Dac in great condition.
I figured its both the simplest (though god knows where its going to live) and least risky (wont loose much money on it if it doesnt work out) option.
Plus who doesnt like new toys to play with!
I also need to sort out my power cabling for the hum/buzz when switching power amp on.
I will need a new mains extension lead for the ndac so see if that and a cable rejig helps.
Longer term i am going to take a look at different speakers. Dealer has recommended something with a ribbon tweeter like the Neats.
After that maybe a proper top loading CD transport to replace the pioneer dvd player. Then look at power supply upgrade for the ndac.
Whats the euromillions jackpot like tomorrow??? 
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Congrats! Like you said ‘if’ the nDAC doesn’t work for you, it’s really easy to move on.
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This Friday 27th is a Super £107M jackpot on the EuroMillions, for anyone needing a 555 for their nDAC (well worth it)!
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If i win the jackpot i’d be tempted to get a Statement for each room 
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The nDac is now setup but only the cd player is hooked up. I cant say I notice that much difference, the sound stage feels a little wider but it hasnt warmed up the sound. Electric guitars are where I have the biggest problem.
Suede (Animal nitrate), Aerosmith (Walk on Water) and any Nirvana are some recently played examples on CD. They all sound quite sharp and uncomfortable.
I have also been “forced” to move the hifi and tv to the opposite side of the room to accomodate a new sofa.
This has given me loads more room for the hifi as it now all fits nicely in an alcove under the stairs. The tv/av unit and speakers are in front of the alcove hiding the hifi rack behind. However, this alcove has also robbed me of most of the bass the speakers make. Behind the speakers, the alcove is flooded with bass but in front at the listening position its lacking. For example, there is no bottom end from Michael Jacksons Billie Jean.
I have a Rel t/5x sub on its way. My 25yr old AV sub broke in the move (cone torn off its mount) so i needed to get a new one and payed a bit more for a Rel so i could also connect it to the Naim. This could make things worse rather than better.
So more work has to be done in testing out the nDac and crucially working out how to fix my speaker positioning.
Unsurprising really, so yes, attention to speakers, their and listening positions, and room itself are what’s needed. A copy of REW (free software) and a measuring microphone (much detail in other threads) can make it easier, showing what is lacking or excessive at any point in room and with different speaker positions.
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Are there any tutorials on the Rew software for simple humans like myself?
I have a setup mic from my marantz av amp winder if that will work
IIRC correctly REW has tutorisls?
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Cheers, i will take a look later. I was just being lazy☺️
You’ve moved the target but if your speakers are now sending all the bass into an alcove and none is where you want it they’re in the wrong positions.
If the room is asymmetrical then the speakers might need to be too. When faced with a new room and not knowing where to start I resort the the Sumiko Masterset method, you can find it on the net and all it needs other than your system is a track with a wide range of bass notes, not necessarily the one they recommend but it helps if it’s one you’re not particularly fond of so it’s not a bad choice as you’ll get sick of it by the end. A way to easily move the speakers helps too, I use Herbie’s Gliders on a tiled floor but with carpet removing the spikes or putting a board under them might work better. With bright speakers don’t toe them in until the end and then just enough to fill out the centre of the sound image. After that if it’s still not right it’s time to start auditioning alternatives, probably with soft tweeters.
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