What’s so bad about Naim Speakers?

I’ve got Kudos 808s - which I love - and as most people know, Kudos was formed out out the team from Neat (Derek Gilligan specifically) - so I’m wondering if actually I’ve really missed out by never even considering any Naim Speakers.

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I don’t think you’ve missed out. I believe it has been the same design and listening philosophy applied for the most part across the Naim, Neat and Kudos speaker lines. Like all product lines, there are those that are sought after and others that you just want to leave in the box. I had forgotten the brief period using Naim Intro Speakers driven by a Unitiqute2 initially then bi-amped with the UQ2 and a NAP100. System never really jelled, the Intros had replaced Linn Index speakers (not a fan of those either) and both were blown away by Neat Petite IIIs on good stands. Gheez, I’ve used so many different combos of various speakers with various Naim setups that I’ve forgotten some of the pairings :slight_smile: .

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You mentioned the Linn Saras earlier - those are the speakers that delivered my first real HiFi thrill.

Lp12, Ittock, Troika, LK1/LK2, Saras - at Audio Projects in Leeds - blew me away and I’ve been hooked ever since. Never did own a pair.

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When I first bought my Linn LP12 back in '82, the system I aspired to at that time was the 32/HC/250 with Linn Saras. That system at the dealer (London Audio in London, Ontario and Terry Richardson) is what started me on the lifetime voyage and exploration of Naim products. I had a kit built Hafler 200 amp that I had turbocharged and the original Audible Illusions tube preamp at the time with the Advent 3002 speakers. I eventually did at one point (many years later) briefly have that 32.5/HC/250 Linn Sara setup as a 2nd system.

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I have been using SBLs since 1988. Nothing I have heard in that time has improved on them in any way. Fast and involving. It’s all I need. YMMV.

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I believe that all Naim loudspeakers have been designed in a way to minimise cabinet resonance transfer to actual drivers. Thing is, other loudspeaker manufacturers have been exploring that avenue way before Naim and IMO, have come up with better solutions.

There is a limit you can achieve with a Scanspeak D2010 tweeter and a 8’’ modified Mordaunt Short woofer.

It was a nice try to challenge all the work and experience that engineers from the BBC and others have done way before the first Naim speaker materialized but the brutal reality is that nobody outside Naim amplifier owners would even contemplate Naim speakers.

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I actually brought credo speakers for my then Arcam setup, after trying loads of other options. The credos were spot on. It was only after getting them did I then upgrade to Naim amplification

I’m really just pulling a leg. My dealer always kept shoving used Naim speakers in front of me to audition, and sadly, the pair of SBL’s I auditioned while buying my current speakers (white glass clad Audio Physic Compact Classics) truly did look like something dragged up out of somebody’s basement. I’m sure that if in good condition and in the right room they look and sound great. But these just weren’t worth what he was asking for them imo (esp compared to the deal I got on the AP’s) and I’m pretty sure my wife would have had something to say about them (she’d rather the speakers just disappear into the wall mind you).

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I had grudging respect for SBLs when I worked inthe trade. Though I’d never have bought a pair.

To me, Naim speakers sounded dry and papery with no soundstage. Back then, I’d have always paired a Naim stack with Linn Keihlidh or Kabers for a more fluid three dimensional presentation. Back then I was the minority in the shop.

25 years later when I returned as a customer, I asked about the current Naim speakers, and was told that they had dropped them from stock when the Ovators came out because they were unlistenable and weird sounding. Who knows, I may have actually liked those :slight_smile:

To this day I just cannot get along with the *BL range. Even active DBLs didn’t do it for me,

I do find it odd that they put so much R&D into BMR units only to get one range of speakers out of the technology. There is nothing that anyone at Naim could say that would make be think the Focal partnership did not drive this decision.

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I’ve never managed to find anything bad about Naim speakers. My guide, with any speaker, has been to find one that makes music sound live and in the room. Some speakers, like electrostatics, will create an illusion that kind of takes you from the room and plonks you in the venue. Naim, have this knack of somehow taking the venue and plonking it in front of you.

Linn could do much the same trick with the likes of Kan’s, Sara’s and Isobariks. However, Linn’s offerings tended to get more coloured the larger the speaker got. Isobariks were great at rock, pop and jazz but pretty rubbish at anything classical. The DBL was the first big speaker I heard that could bridge that gap. I always thought that DBL’s sounded like Kan’s with bass. Something no other speaker could seem to achieve. I have to say that DBL’s, despite their size, can blend quite will into a domestic living room. I’m not sure this can be said with today’s more modern offerings?

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A very good friend of mine when I first new him had a pair of Naim speakers that I’m pretty certain were IBLs, back in 1989. I remember well the first time I heard his system, fed by LP12 so I was fully expecting it to sound better than my system with its Thorens TD150. He’d only just bought the system and was very proud of it (as anyone was at that time who could afford an LP12). After dinner we sat down with his wife and her sister (my girlfriend) with our drinks and he put some music on on, and…

Erm, where’s the bass? Everything sounded so thin, with no weight, let alone anything really low. He started saying how great it sounded and I had to bite my tongue, not at that point knowing him well enough to tell him right out what I thought.

He came round to my house a few days later, and I put my system on. He just sat there, mouth open, dumbfounded. Mind you, mine were IMF TLS 50s, so perhaps not surprising. A year or so later when I changed to their big brother he had my old ones and sold the IBLs -and kept the IMFs for the next 25 years.

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Problem I had with Kabers and Keildhs, even with a Naim stack, was a tonal coloration that made the vocalists all sound like they had head colds.

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Nothing. I listen to my Ovator S400’s daily with total pleasure. I do wish Naim had not moved away from what works so well.

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I probably shouldn’t feed the troll, but…

I heard the IBLs on the end of my system (CDS II, NAC 52, and active NAP 250s) and they sounded delightful. But then again, I don’t need vast quantities of deep bass to enjoy the music. More important for me is the ability of the system to keep up with the music. When fed with a high quality signal, IBLs excelled in that respect, as do the SBLs I’ve owned for over a quarter of a century and the Linn Kans I owned before the SBLs.

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Having gone from passive to active on the SBL’s I think what may be ‘wrong’ are the passive crossovers.

For me SBL’s passive are fast and articulate but unfortunately a bit too thin and ephemeral. Run active they gain quite a bit of richness and power.

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They are (mostly) designed for solid floors and solid walls

They are very source dependent and get better the more you upgrade.

The bass is more like a sealed speaker and not ported or transmission lines that add things that aren’t really there.

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Your question seems odd, given the esteem in which the long-deleted *BL range of speakers is still held in these parts. There was a running joke in the old forum that, any time someone asked for speaker recommendations, regardless of the particulars of their request – system, room, budget – the first answer would always be “Sibbles.”

I’ve never much cared for the house sound of *BL Naim speakers myself (never heard Ovators, so can’t comment on those). They always struck me as overly lean and austere, sacrificing everything on the altar of speed. Another reminder that, once the technical basics are addressed, all speaker decisions are entirely subjective.

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I’ve owned Intro’s, Credo’s, IBL’s, SBL’s,NBL’s and DBL’s. SBL’s in the right room can be amazing. DBL’s were the best speakers ever made. Powered with 500 series electronics they sounded like no other speaker on the planet. Not the last word in detail, but who cares. They were so musical, so involving.

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Blimey - if the Kabers gave a more fluid presentation I’m beginning to form a picture! :flushed:

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:joy::joy: …that’s a great anecdote that I think truly illustrates to challenge with Naim speakers. Some things sound amazing - but it’s only when you hear what you’re missing that you realise the compromise you’ve made.

Some people move on from that and look back with happiness at the good stuff - others can’t stop thinking about what they’re missing out on. Gosh - this is all making me think about ex girlfriends!