For what it’s worth I own SBL’s, Intro’s and also reviewed the SL2 for HFN. That generation of naim speakers really were pretty unique - they were blindingly fast and managed to have a very transparent top end that was only rarely harsh. They also had the benefit of being ‘backs to the wall’ designs which in my experience are easier to accomodate in a typical British house. As for the looks I have to say I remain a fan - in particular the slanted front of the SBL/DBL and SL2 is very attractive to me.
Their flaws though are that their extremely dry bass response can make them sound lean, especially on less well recorded material like a lot of 80’s rock (REO Speedwagon, Heart, A-Ha, T-Pau etc) whereas they sound incredible on things like Tracy Chapman, Tanita Tikaram and the like. I think it’s fair to say the bass is very tuneful, it just isn’t really fulsome or even realistic and the presentation (at least on the SBL in my room for around 20 years) lacked a certain weight and scale.
From the little I have heard of the Focal range they seem to be cut from an entirely different cloth and are a more mainstream in their sound - closer to B&W than naim’s original speaker line in my view.
For my part I discovered ATC and fell totally in love, I just felt I had found the sound I had been searching for all of my life. My SBL’s were too good to sell and so they currently operate as rear surround speakers for cinema in the main system. They’re in near mint condition in beech, I bought them for full retail cost around 1999 (£2550) and I doubt I will ever part with them as my wife and I bought them together just after we met so they hold a lot of memories! Meanwhile my ATC SCM40 MK2 passives continue to amaze driven by the NAP250. They do everything the SBL’s do in terms of speed and agile bass but sound a lot more ‘full bandwidth’. Ironically in some ways they remind me of DBL’s!
I have recently changed from pmc 20.23 to passive atc scm 40, the pmc went lower, but much leaner/dryer sounding whereas the atc is much fuller sounding capable of truely trouser flapping experience, both speakers will not reproduce bass that is not in the mix. I think it’s down to personal preference on dry vs fuller sounding , you’d need to hear the original recording on the mastering equipment (unlikely) to say if a particular speaker was presenting an accurate reproduction of an cd/lp afaik both pmc and atc are used in recording studios at least the professional versions, I don’t know if this has any bearing in comparison with Naim speakers.
“Need to hear the original recording on the mastering equipment” … where the recording is the reference, the amplifier and speakers used by the mastering engineer are not necessarily more “right” than the listener’s own system at home. They may sound better, they may sound worse. It’s a case of … whatever sounds best to the listener, is best. (Not to say there won’t be some degradation of the recording as it travels along the path to the listener’s source equipment, but there’s no legislating for that).
Couldn’t resist the topic but it’s a bit like throwing raw meat to sharks! Guided by the helpfulness of others in this community, I realise my current room doesn’t favour my SBLs but I love the sound on the whole - they are so clear and articulate and depending on the source, give good bass. Good, but not great. Agile, detailed, sufficient for the room if I’m honest, but not hefty, and I prefer the bass to blow me away. Love the looks. I’d have to spend a chunk to replace them - and I can only really put speakers against the wall for reasons of space and domestic harmony…
I’d try and sneak in some DBLs if an upgrade was planned. I’m going to check out the new ‘active’ thread too - I suspect the SBLs could still give more, so will look for pointers.
I always liked SBLs after attending a Naim evening in a Chadderton hotel when SBLs were the new product. The first track played was Thirteen Question Method by Ry Cooder played on an LP12/Ekos/Troika IIRC. Active with 135s.
Without this ending up being an SBL thread, I wanted to add that my SBLs were brilliant with my Nait2. Bass was tight and mids detailed. In some ways better than my 250.
I suppose, what I’m trying to say is, I think they are a good speaker. There are undoubtedly better speakers out there but they work for me and have no urge to change them.
I think Naim did well with these, and the fact that there is a debate says a lot.
Must admit from a business perspective I’ve never understood that. The cost of a bigger amp is always going to be less than 2 (or 3) of the smaller amp plus SNAXO/SCAP. So it never makes sense to go active with anything less than a 500DR setup?
I think you may have mis-spoke. You can not go active with a single amp, going active with 500DRs would be significantly more expensive than going active with any other Naim amplification. Did you mean to state that passive with a single 500DR makes more sense than active with two 300DRs? I think you will find that the cost of a 250 is half the cost of a 300 which in turn is half the cost of a 500. Going active will require an external crossover with power supply no matter what amplifier(s) are used. So from a cost perspective, active with say 2 300DRs + SNAXO + SUPERCAP is more expensive than staying passive with a single 500DR with say an SBL type speaker.
Ooops, we are sort of stating the same thing. That said , one 500 passive is better than 3 x 250’s active (and about the same price once you factor in SNAXO and SC if buying from new); the difference between active with 300s and passive with a 500 definitely swings cost-wise in favour of the passive 500, but sonically may be less clear as the real limiting factor may be the passive crossover? Would love to be able to test that out (say 2 x300DR driving SBLs vs 500 passive driving SBLs; hasn’t this been discussed on the old forum?).
Much discussion of active vs passive in other current threads, including one specifically about active with 300 vs passive with 500, though none are specifically about Naim speakers.
I find this is more a product of a speaker interacting with room acoustics. Certain frequencies get boosted or cancelled.
As @JonathanG said above, the speed of the older Naim speakers is tremendous. This is aided by a certain phase coherence, with the phase guide in the mid-bass unit, that for me means that music replay remains in proportion as volume is changed.
Other speakers can have a richer mid-range and/or extension at the frequency extremes that I do find attractive, but as a package the SBLs in a ‘normal’ sized British living room are rather good.
I went down the route of getting a passive XO made with uprated components, I didn’t want to have to add MORE shelves. Recently I added some IsoAcoustic Gaias to good effect. I don’t know whether these were the cause but friends have commented that I get more bass from my SBLs than they are used to.
You could look at a Sub, such as the BK-XXLS-400. This is a great sealed sub and is FAST. Works well with the SBLs; run the wires from the speakers to the Hi input (get wiring advice).
As you know the SBLs do have some very particular strengths that I think we both find attractive.
What’s so bad about naim speakers …
Well, in short, the older BL range had some issues with looks, WAF, size and cumbersome Installation procedures while the newer ovator range supposedly couldn’t really convince by its sonic abilities.
Well, having done a compare and contrast between the SBLs and the Lumina IIIs this afternoon I am back to the LP12/Aro/Geddon > SBL. Just listening to the vinyl version of ‘The Sound of Silence’; this is superb.
I am NOT saying that ANY vinyl is better than the digital front end, this is NOT the case. But with the right album this combination is MUCH more than the components.
A friend has a Tangerined LP12 & Olive amps into Focals. With Led Zep and rock of that era I have not heard the music sound better …but, with other genres perhaps not so hot; and I DON’T like Olive amps particularly.
This is my first pair, which I was listening to a few moments ago. They are also part of the surround set up when watching TV. Please excuse all the cables, I was playing with the satellite and wifi earlier.
The second set are in another room which is being decorated, so have bin bags over them at the moment, but when its all over I will post a pic of them
