Just curious what the forum members think.
- Speakers with no subwoofer
- Speakers with subwoofer(s)
I look for speakers that do well with lots of different music. Not just organ music. I donāt use a Sub. I like my Spendor D7.2. My room holds onto bass, so thereās no need for a Sub. The Wilson Audio organ recordings are superb. For me, great speakers produce lots of details and church ambiance with these recordings.
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Actually I like speakers that are musical, detail oriented and have tuneful bass for all types of music. I donāt use a sub either.
But I just love the Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3. when the bass comes in generously.
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To convincingly replicate the deep floor shaking bass of a church organ I think you would need some kind of subwoofer. I personally dislike subwoofers and would never use one, but I donāt think thereās any other way to reproduce such powerful deep floor shaking bass in a domestic system.
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I havenāt compared standalone full range speakers with anything having subs, so I canāt answer your question. If the organ music is wide ranging stuff including full 16 Hz notes, then I think subs would be the way to go, though what to pair them with is another matter. If youāre starting afresh, then depending on budget, I suspect a good choice might be the ATC SCM40A actives combined with a pair of really good subs designed for music (I believe some of the RELās are, and the ultimate is possibly the Wilson Benesch IGx Infrasonic Generator, formerly known as the Torus). Otherwise transmission line speakers would be my choice, as they go low in the bass and to my taste have the best presentation. With no subs then the bigger the bass driver the better. From current speakers I can certainly recommend the PMC MB2, which has a 12ā bass driver, though lesser PMC speakers I am sure would still be very good, and they play all music well. It all depends on budget of course and if it were me I would be buying secondhand (indeed thatās how I got my MB2s!). If budget and space permit, the MB2 is available with an extra box making it the MB2XBD, doubling its height, which increases bass capability. And then there is the PMC BB5, and BB5XBD! There are a couple of other vans of transmission line speakers as well as PMC, though I have no personal experience with them.
N.B. If it is only pipe organ music you are listening to, then the āspeedā of the bass may be less important than for other music because the organ pipes themselves have a slow response and if recorded in a hall or church with long decay time then that is added too.
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No sub here. However I think speed of bass is crucial otherwise you blame the player.
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Many organist have a sloppy bass. They just play it so since it sounds ārubatoā. Horrible.
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My comments was based on experience, so it would have been the player? But if the organist stamps on the pedal fast and releases it equally swiftly, the pipe still has a slight rise time and longer decay time, and that is before adding the reverberation time of the hall/church?
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I can see why you might think that but IME bass speed is very important for all types of music, but espcially so where there is lots of deep powerful bass. One might not think of pipe organ bass as being fast, and certainly less fast than a kick drum in a rock band, but Iāve found that speakers that donāt have good bass speed usually just sound soggy, whatever music is played. The actual reality of the bass speed doesnāt translate directly into system requirements concerning it. In other words systems that donāt do fast bass just sound bad whatever. IME.
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Certainly, pipes could be slow but a good organ has fast bass. In my local church when the renovation was done around 2010 they replaced the tubes feeding the organ pipes so that the āattackā was improved. The bass is certainly faster since then.
Many amateur organist have bad technique and tend to play the bass slow (and on socks instead of proper leather shoes 
). All professionals I know have good bass technique since it is mandatory in order to get a diploma.
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Iāve found that some speakers that may only go to around say 40 Hz can do organ bass pretty well, at least in terms of fullness. Others sound thin and might go 30 - 35 Hz, at least in their specs. The number of woofers, configuration and box size are important variables of course.
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Yes, itās not just actual bass depth thatās important itās also fullness and weight. Thatās why I suggest that it wonāt be possible to get something that approaches the reality without a subwoofer. This will enable fullness, weight and depth. Of course choice of main speakers, sub and appropriate setup to blend together will be critical. Iāve tried a few subs in the past and Iāve never been convinced by them. To me they either sounded very obvious and separate or they had no effect at all depending on adjustments.
The best compromise I imagine would be large speakers with deep weighty bass and a sub or two to provide the final octaves of extension and power. Without a sub I think you would require some sort of very large professional auditorium type speakers to produce a similar effect. Too big for domestic use.
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I have several different vintage speakers and listen at moderate levels. But even then certain ones are effortless on deep bass. Not surprising really. I listen to organ music only occasionally, actually.
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One of my favourite jazz organist is Dr Lonnie Smith. He was a legend.
I asked IA about his organ technic and could read that:
āThe āDoctorā was the absolute master of unpredictable bass. Unlike the rigid school of the black load step, Lonnie Smith constantly floated his bass.
The style: He used a lot of space and silences, letting the drummer carry the tempo alone for some time. His bass lines on his left hand were extremely elastic, full of bluesy inflections, slipped notes (slides) and rhythmic suspensions.
To listen: His albums from the Blue Note years like Think! Or Turning Point.ā
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Six-pack or go home.
Actually, all music benefits from a properly configured REL six-pack. I can never go back.
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What is this āorgan musicā you speak of?
Kidding
sort of
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OK music āpiecesā. Or music played in a setting that utilizes an instrument using some kind of keyboard, and maybe (hopefully) lots of āpipesā of varying size, frequency and loudnessā Can sound (like many instruments) good too.
Yes, those will get the job done!
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Yes, I enjoy Dr. Lonnie Smith as well.
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We saw him perform here in St. Louis a couple years before he passed away (maybe about 2018?). After the show we met and talked to him on stage, and I showed him some photos of my system and vinyl collection. He loved it, and said he wanted to come home with us to listen. LOL, I donāt know if he was joking or half seriousā¦probably the former He was such a kind soul, and so friendly and engaging with my wife and me.
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