What to spend £3k on

Hi IB, having heard how a M Scaler utterly transforms the performance of a Qutest, my vote goes to the M Scaler. A demonstration would always be beneficial for the OP as you recommend.

Coming back to the OP’s original question, HH’s advice to work out the 4 box end goal first, then minimise the steps to get there seems like the best advice. A good dealer will be happy to organise such a demonstration and help the OP from there.

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Your experience certainly suggests that, though from reading multiple descriptions of experiences with M-Scaler it seems the degree of effect may depend on the source as well as the DAC - and hearing us indeed the only way to be sure in any given setup.

As for the 4 boxes, from the OP’s response to my question as to why 4 not 3 or 5, it seems the number is not necessarily a rigid target.

Particularly so with an MScaler, changing transports from Cambridge to the ND5XS2 would be totally pointless. They will sound the same.

Is this because the M Scaler is supposed to insulate the dac from any differences in streamer performance?

If so, our experience has been a bit different.

Best regards, BF

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Sort of with reference to the MScaler, but my experience of various transports is they make no discernible difference.

When I had an all Naim system and got my DAVE, I tried the NDX2 as a transport only and heard no difference between this, the Moon Mind 2 and a MacMini. I also tried a MacBook Pro running Roon, and it was the same scenario. Clearly differences between DACs vary enormously, but transports…not at in all my experience.

Interested in your experience. I must add that all above transports went/are going through a Mutec USB reclocking device. So perhaps that’s played a part.

Ah, thanks Barry. I have not tried a USB re-clocker.

I have tried a number of transports feeding our M Scaler & DAVE and even different power supplies on our Sonore opticalRendu and heard repeatable differences. However, perhaps the USB reclocker levels the playing field.

The Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker also comes highly recommended, though I haven’t heard none myself.

Best regards, BF

@anon4489532 @Innocent_Bystander @Bluesfan @Mike_S

4-box solution for me is most likely to be the following over the next 18/24-months:
282 (NAPSC)
Supercap / Hicap DR
250DR
NDX 2

After reading this thread I was really keen in improving my digital output. However, I’ve spent all day today listening to vinyl (P8 / Apheta / Aria Mk3) and it’s sounding fantastic so am now questioning if I want to spend £3k on an MScaler vs. improving the Pre / Power part of my system. Or even upgrading the speakers.

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Great, that really helps. Probably the easiest and cheapest starting point then is to add a HiCAP to your SN3, then you would keep this to use on a future 282 (assuming you don’t go for the more expensive Supercap later, but a HiCAP would be easy enough to sell anyway).

Then I think the next choice is whether you want to upgrade the streamer first, that might depend on how much you would use it compared to the P8. If using the streamer a lot, I’d add the NDX2 to the SN3. Then run a 282 with the SN3 in power amp mode and finally trade out (or keep for a second system) the SN3 for the 250. If streaming is less of priority, leave the NDX2 to last.

Though if good used components come up in a different order, I wouldn’t be to concerned if it gets you to the end goal.

Good luck and enjoy the journey.

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@anon4489532 has personal experience of an NDX2/555PS and SN3 system, as well as one with a much bigger amplifier (272/555PS/NAP300 if memory serves), so is probably best placed to share on the basis of personal experience.

You now appear to be at something of a crossroads, so you probably need a good dealer now more than ever. Find a dealer you trust and then work through the options with them. This will be a more reliable route to take than well intended advice from strangers on a forum.

I agree wholeheartedly with that. The 282/250 is a lot of money and while it’s clearly better than the SN3 it raises the issue of whether a bare NDX2 is really up to the task. If you are not careful it can set off an upgrade fest that was never intended.

Talking of intended, I’d be ditching the non-Naim power supply from the SN3. The amplifier has a very good DR power supply on board, so why use something that will change its sound?

Regarding the 555PS, it seemed to make far more of a difference to the 272 than to the SN3. I’m now living happily with ‘just’ two good sources - bare NDX2 and Rega Planar 10, the SN3 - again bare - and some small but very good ProAcs. It’s really simple, with few cables, and works well.

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Any of those options would improve ‘everything’. Which is (nearly *) always my preferred option… :blush:

(* - my last 2 upgrades were both Linn related…)

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