Just to be clear in case there’s any confusion - and perhaps this was not intended in the post- there is a team of 6 (6 when I left Naim in 2020, it could have changed) all permanent employees who work at the factory. It’s not an outsourced call centre arrangement. They do use freshdesk software but that’s out of necessity due to the volume of calls and emails received. They are supporting hifi dealers as well as end users.
Nevertheless the level of service clearly collapsed when the readily accessible and highly knowledgeable 2 man team was dispatched in favour of whatever setup replaced them. I can’t imagine what went wrong, but it’s very clear that the support service has never recovered from this change.
No app is perfect, there are always bugs but I dont see anything vastly broken in the Naim app when I use it, which admittidley isnt much as I use Roon. I dont have the server issue you report, I dont use playlists so cant comment on that one, but I can try it and see if the issue you report is reproducable.
I can’t comment on what happened before, but yes there were brand new people from October 2018. Then Charlie put Mark B there and he made big inroads to improving support. It’s a tough job and muso/new platform makes it harder as it’s invariably network issues that are never the same. And all the dealer issues and rma go through the same team.
I use a ND5XS2. Except for a power button, the unit does not have other controls. I also don’t have a remote, so I solely depend on the Naim app through my iPhone for everything, even system automation for my NAIT.
I sometimes do encounter some glitches. But a simple power down or router reset fixes these. If not, I contact tech support which I find very helpful. They have been very patient with me and provide solutions which sorts out my issues. You don’t see these type of after sales support with a lot of companies.
My Naim app still works fine, I can select any server on my network and play music.
It just works. I’ve not noticed any glitches at all.
I.e. when I listen to Qobuz playlist, and remove a track, it first removes hell knows what, and after the app restart shows the actual state of the playlist.
To me, such issues are the proof that the software quality is below zero.
Where/how are you making playlist changes?
Has anyone having specific playlist behaviour issues made the required changes in the Qobuz app rather than the Naim app?
There’s a lot of dependencies going on here as well as interaction with external services and databases ultimately outside of Naim’s control.
A meaningful feedback loop would be the Beta programs where end users can contribute directly to feature improvements and other benefits.
I have no complaints at all regarding the Naim app. It works extremely well in my experience. I’m in the Beta team and of course we detect issues with the Beta versions, but that’s the purpose of Beta testing. The issues we identify get resolved in good time and don’t see the light of day in the production released version. There’s nothing to get wound up about at all.
The only problem I have with the Naim app is, if I switch off the phone then switch it back on again the app locks up, and it takes a while to get it under control again.
Importantly Naim take on the responsibility to develop and maintain their products in-house as opposed to either licensing off the shelf solutions and applying a basic skinning customisation, or outsourcing to an external developer.
Given the high level of interaction with external services and operating systems, there’s a complex level of interoperability and regression testing to factor in to the mix.
My personal experience both as an end user and with interactions through the multiple end user beta programs has always been very positive and the team at Naim as a whole take their development activities very personally and are always mindful of the end user experience being the driver for their efforts.
Naim app, Qobuz, playlist, three dots on track, Delete track. That is it.
Sometimes it removes hell knows what, sometimes the entire album to which the track to be removed belongs to. The bug is just visual as the actual changes are applied correctly but the app restart is required to make them visible.
Such silly bugs look like a proof that nobody does such testing and such functionality is made by low skilled engineers. I know, the software development is very expensive. So, Naim needs years to polish such things.
Is your issue on iOS or Android?
Have you tried modifying playlists in the Qobuz app first then checking changes are applied as expected in the Naim app?
I’m not sure that calling the people who work on the software low skilled is entirely helpful. You know nothing about them. It’s rude and rather childish, and reflects badly on you.
I agree entirely. What is the matter with people these days?
At present I use 2 apps - the Auralic and Naim ones and, although not perfect, they are both excellent and among the best I’ve personally tried. The Auralic one has some nice functionalities but if anything, the Naim one is faster and more responsive.
I think a lot depends on the home networks as well. I do not use multiple servers and there would be room for improvement with the playlist function, in particular, on both but one should try e.g. the likes of Cyrus or Melco to know what poor interface means and before being harsh on Naim.
I wrote this first comment in the hope of stirring up someone at Naim who might take an interest in getting this fixed. Two Firmware updates ago and several app updates, it used to work perfectly. For example I select to play a whole album and I want to delete the odd future track, it deletes the first track, but then no longer deletes tracks and often crashes, it is not a display issue, it does not delete tracks after the first delete. If I want to delete five tracks, I have to delete a track, exit the app and then repeat the process; it never used to be like this. It also freezes or takes a long time to figure out what track it is playing, none of these problems existed until the update I mention. I contacted Naim support the day after the update and explained the problem. They said it was network related and asked me to do a test and send them the results, I did and they agreed there were no problems. It was suggested I did a factory reset, I did, no surprise it made no difference. I waited and waited for someone from support to come back to me, nothing. Then there was another Firmware update and an app update; still not fixed. I contacted Naim support again and explained in great detail the issues - nothing. Months later I tried again and got a response related to they missed it due to Covid. Several app updates and still not fixed.
I am using Android, not the latest version, my wife had a new Android Tablet for Christmas, I was keen to see if this made any difference, nope, still the same bugs.
I was having a demo of some speakers at a dealers, I had asked for a Naim Streamer to be the source which would match my set up. They did this and gave me an iPad to use. I took the opportunity to see if the bugs existed in ios, to my surprise they did not, it worked perfectly. I again contacted Naim support and mentioned that I had been using a system with ios at a dealers and it worked fine, but my system with various Android versions did not, nothing from Naim.
We have a Unity Atom for another room and my ND5XS2 for the main, so I have a lot of money invested in Naim, not so much as some, but a lot for me, both have had this issue since the update I mentioned earlier. The demo at the dealer was on an NDX2, I thought the operating system for all these products was the same but differences in various hardware levels taken into account by the software. You would have thought that as popular a product as the Unity Atom someone would have noticed it, the ND5XS is maybe less popular.
Either way I have spent a lot of time investigating this issue and documenting in emails to support at Naim to be just completely ignored. As I mentioned I had a Cambridge Audio streamer that I left in the system as a backup to the Naim ND5XS, it too has had lots of updates, all flawless and works exactly as my Naim used to. I wait to see if Naim can be bothered to pick up on this.
Look the naim app is quite basic, lacks common mobile device usability features, has a few annoying gui bugs and sometimes fails to find gen 1 naim devices on our home network (at the same time as other apps on those same devices are working as expected, suspect something in naim app state gets corrupted as hard close of app and reopen always solves). Android app is definitely the poor cousin of the one on Apple devices in terms of flaws we experienced around connectivity but we tried both as the wife is an Apple lady (phone/pad) and I’m an Android man.
Rather than throwing abuse at naim staff just do what everyone else who is dissatisfied with the naim app does… use any one of the other multitude of uPNP and internet radio apps on the app stores which are standards compliant, feature rich, have fantastic interfaces and control naim streamers flawlessly every time without fail.
My wife and I both have our fave player apps for NAS flac/radio and we use Tidal app via Tidal connect (RPI providing this).
In fact if we add an ND5XS2/NDX2 into our setup we already know that other than initial setup (inputs/outputs etc.) we would not use the naim app at all since we’re old fashioned and still like to use remote handset to control preamp/volume.
Naim’s customer support responsiveness appears to be less than stellar at the moment, which is unfortunate. It’s very frustrating when you have spent time explaining the issues and then get no response. You should note that Naim do not routinely monitor this Forum, so the above post is unlikely to be read. I therefore suggest that you summarise everything you have said in a new email and send it in again. It’s a nuisance but there it is.
Do bear in mind that if it’s phrased as a rant like your opening post on this thread, it won’t be taken seriously. Set it all out in a calm, clear and measured way, giving as much information as possible to make any fault identification easy.
Bear in mind also that the iOS app is generally considered better, so it may be worth considering getting an iPad. The cost may be more than compensated by the removal of your frustrations.
I’d strongly disagree. I spend too much time to find a way how to live with the issues of Naim app.
If this were the only bug, I’d not do any such judgement. However, I bump into some issue every day I use the app.
Moreover, I know the field full well as I have over 25 years of software development.
When the app behaves like I described, there is no doubts - these issues are childish. Application is full of such things.
Nowadays nobody sends high skilled engineers to programm buttons and styles. Nobody. It costs a fortune.