Wish list for new naim products in 2022 and beyond

Hi-Fi Corner
368

A better CD player? the assumption that every one of us is a keen ripper to NAS may be a mistake, given the age of most people who can afford high end boxes.

More critically, even geeks may have occasional issues with the internet - in London, I blame Virgin and my neighbours’ arms race on wifi strength. In rural Australia, the issues can be more involved. A Wifi glitch will stop me controlling the Naim app reliably, so no NDX2 or Core service.

I will not be the only person who does not want to rely on wifi for me to have any access to music. Sitting in silence next to the hundreds of CDs I have amassed over the last 35 years because of a wi-fi glitch that I am assured will be sorted out tomorrow need not happen often to be disappointing.

Thankfully, I have the LP12, and for now my excellent CDS2. When the latter dies, it won’t be fixable, so what to buy? A CD5 si may be great value, but if my CDS2 broke down tomorrow, I am pretty confident that I would feel forced to move away from Naim.

As I understand it, the CD555 was discontinued in 2017 and the CDX2 in 2018. The market for non-budget CD players will probably never be as big as it was before streaming became the norm, but there is surely still enough demand for Naim to make a decent margin on one non-budget CD player controlled by the buttons of the front or the Naim remote control.

Am i in fact in a group of one on this?

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369

You are not a group of one, but it’s apparently not a very big group, as far as I can tell. Though yes, some people are with you on that

Two points:

  1. Local rips should be unaffected by internet outages

  2. Wifi issues can indeed prevent you from using the NDX2 as the Naim app usually needs wifi. But there are two solutions for this that seem more future proof than resurrecting CD players:

If you have a new Mac with M1 CPU, the Naim app can be installed on that one, and I suppose there is still a way to use a Mac with an Ethernet cable. That would at least get you around temporary wifi issues.

Naim could provide a dedicated application for Windows PCs and Macs. There is a cost developing it, but that also exists for developing a new CDP.

(I use Roon, which does have apps for most platforms, so if my wifi broke I could simply use a cable from the laptop)

Of course this requires the streamer to be wired as well

370

Hi Suedkiez,

So if the internet coughs and takes out my wi-fi for a while, my rips are still in the Core, but I don’t see them. Is running an ethernet cable across the floor from a Mac (so that I can still reach the app) really better and easier and more robust than just buying (say) a Marantz SA-10?

I am aware that my Mac has lots of USB-C ports, but no others.

Also, this may work for me and others who rip now, but for a lot of the non-ripping over-65s the above will be as comprehensible as Sanskrit.

Having said all that, I didn’t know that plugging in a cable to a Mac would definitely work and (for example) that the app won’t be fixated on not finding a ‘room’ by wi-fi), so I am grateful for the comment.

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371

If the internet goes down it has no effect whatsoever on your wifi. You can prove this to yourself by disconnecting the router from the internet and the wifi will keep going and you can control the Core happily.

That said we weren’t happy with wifi performance of our Virgin hub, so we have it in modem mode with an ASUS Zen as the router. It’s much more powerful and flexible, so may be worth looking in to.

372

This should be the case, of course, although I have come across more than one ISP whose router will, when your internet service fails, grind to a complete halt and take down your LAN. If you can jump through the hoops of unplugging, restarting etc. without losing the will to live, it might just possibly take you to a page which includes the option to ‘continue without internet’ but even that often fails to appear.
As you say, disabling WiFi on your ISP supplied router and using your own local networking hardware can be a better option.

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373

As HH said in his reply, this should not be the case. As ChrisSU said in the other reply, it can happen if the router is really shitty or someone misconfigured it on purpose (or in hybris). But I have never seen anything like this in 30 years of computing. It’s as wrong as your car not starting because you didn’t wash it :slight_smile:

Is running an ethernet cable across the floor from a Mac (so that I can still reach the app) really better and easier and more robust than just buying (say) a Marantz SA-10?

To each their own, of course. My wifi has not been down (other than a very rare need to reboot the router) since I had wifi, which is about 20 years. And I never did anything special either, and always lived in apartments in densely populated areas. Reliable wifi was, though, indeed for a long time a problem in large spaces and buildings of certain construction. Gladly, mesh wifi has fixed this more or less. (Though if one can’t install it on their own, I guess it can be not that easy to find a good service provider who can)

In any case, to me the answer is yes even if I had to run a length of ethernet cable occasionally (which just doesn’t happen). CD players with all their high-precision moving parts that are prone to failure, and their scratch-sensitive discs, are IMHO a crazy (impressive but crazy) contraption that would never have seen the light of day if another way of storing and delivering music digitally had been possible in the 1980s.

And they don’t even have any metadata. People complain if the metadata on downloaded files and rips is not perfect, but CDs have none and this seems fine. The booklet of course, if any, but this does not disappear just because the CD gets ripped.

I am aware that my Mac has lots of USB-C ports, but no others.

USB-C-to-Ethernet adapters are available and cost about 10 euros. (Maybe 50 for the same if buying from Apple).

Also, this may work for me and others who rip now, but for a lot of the non-ripping over-65s the above will be as comprehensible as Sanskrit.

True. But nearly anyone can stick a CD into a Naim Core or into a Roon Nucleus with an attached CD drive. Although I appreciate that issues can occur that seem simple (if annoying) to some, but may be a major problem for others, which is not necessarily their fault. On the other hand, CD players can also develop issues that normal people can’t solve.

The problem is, simply, whether the remaining people who can’t/won’t do that provide enough of a market to make a sustainable business case for developing top-of-the line CD players. Maybe they do, and more power to them and the businesses catering to them. But it will have a limited life time.

Having said all that, I didn’t know that plugging in a cable to a Mac would definitely work and (for example) that the app won’t be fixated on not finding a ‘room’ by wi-fi), so I am grateful for the comment.

I would recommend trying this in a calm minute when everything works, instead of when it has failed. Stress and unknown failure modes make it harder :slight_smile:

374

Thanks for all the help. Armed with a bit less ignorance than I had when I started, I have tried unplugging my internet cable from my router. After a pause it works exactly as described here. The key bit turned out to be waiting patiently for a couple of minutes before jumping to conclusions.

Getting an outboard router for the new system (plus a cable and one of the adapters mentioned for the hopefully very rare times when things go really wrong) will suit me fine.

I stand by the view that trying to explain to (say) my late mum (who could operate a CD player just fine) about Roon would have been challenge, and there will be many in that camp. However, my direct concern has been successfully fixed, so a big thanks.

3 Likes
375

There are numerous Super Integrated Amps, Unfortunately Naim doesn’t build one.

376

Thumbs up for turning the Virgin hub into modem only. Ours is then plugged into a mesh network for the WiFi- and it’s operated without a glitch for over a year

377

In case it helps, we ended up with an Asus Zen WiFi AX with two boxes. It’s easy to set up and works well. We initially tried a Netgear Orbi. It was initially fine but conked out after two weeks so was returned. One good thing about the Zen is that it has four sockets; a lot of these mesh boxes only have two.

378

I’d love an AV3, with the ability to upgrade with power supplies, ‘only’ 16 channels, no video pass through, options for pass through and EQ on each channel and flexible configuration. I know naim will never go there, such a shame no one makes a processor I covet and that includes Trinnov/Storm etc

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379

Re Richard’s comments on ‘the high end turntable…how cool is that’…i would say very cool if it actually becomes a product in the product line. Right now it is a 500 unit novelty that apparently doesn’t work well with the majority of cartridges (Lyra, Linn and Dyna) than Naim users favor that track at low tracking forces.

Both issues are probably easily fixed if Naim is serious about making it a product.

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380

I would be interested to know where Naim are now up to, in production/delivery of the 500. Clare N used to update the Forum on this… :thinking:

381

I’m not sure whether this should be here or in ‘Streaming’ but one thing I would like Naim to consider as they hopefully move further in to streaming as a major source of hi quality sound is the usability. I have been looking at streaming options for a little while and I copy below part of correspondence with GoldNote about their otherwise excellent streaming products. If Naim are to prosper

“ Unfortunately my wife is not so interested in technology and would like to be able to simply switch the music on or off. My older children similarly are of a generation that are familiar with the use of technology but also want rapid access to everything. They have little time to spare to sit down and enjoy the beautiful music that can be played by. Everything must be instant!

The Bluesound Node is of adequate quality but does not compare to the GN or the Auaralic but when one comes down in the morning I have a remote control that anyone can pick up, press one of any 9 buttons and music plays. That can be from an internet radio feed, Amazon, Qobuz, Tidal or from my local NAS music store. Just one press of a button.

The Auralic is not so sophisticated in its control but it can play music by picking up the same remote control and pressing just one button to turn it on. Music plays, only the connection to the same stream as when it was last switched off, but still Just one press of a button.

Then there is your DS-10.

1.Turn the DS-10 on from standby.

  1. Find the Ipad or mobile device with the app installed.

  2. Find the screen with the app on.

  3. Open the app

  4. Select Music

  5. Select Vtuner

  6. Select Favorites.

  7. Select Station of choice.

  8. Select Play.

You see the difference?

You may recall that one of the richest men on the planet has never made a piece of hardware. He merely has a piece of software that enables even the most technologically dumb person to have full access to all of mostly any computer’s delights. His name is Bill Gates.”

I feel that Naim need to take the usability on board. Many on here, me include are happy to constantly fiddle with turntables, stylus adjustment weights, tracking , loading etc and have carried this over in to streaming hi quality sources. We don’t really notice the number of key presses to play music compared to our turntable fiddling. New and uninterested in the hobby, players of music want and need something simpler.

So Naim add usability to your future products.

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382

Bringing Windows into this as a positive example is quite funny. If anything, it shows that atrocious usability is not an obstacle to becoming hugely successful

Regarding Naim, I don’t love the app, but one can start it, pick a favorite radio and play. Or even with the remote or the Uniti’s fancy wheel

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383

You can pick up a remote control and with a single press play music?

384

With the Favorite button, yes

385

Ah, I couldn’t do this with the Unitiserve . I’m glad that Naim have this with the later streamers, a simple on off switch.

386

With new streamers, if you favorite something in the app, it asks if it should also be added to presets, and the presets are then accessible with the favorite (“star”) button of the remote.

(I’m not a fan of the ambiguous terms, where the favorite button accesses presets, which are not the same thing as favorites in the app. But it does work with one button press to start the first preset)

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387

Its better than having to dive in to multiple screens. I have no problem with an app once the thing is playing something, anything. Its the ease of getting the music playing that stops me using the GN as a main source.

I take it that you are not a fan of Windows, but I remember all the failures of gui’s and the wonderful access that vms/unix gave me to mail and the internet (WWW).