Started with a superuniti paired with B&W 804’s, then 272/250dr, then changed speakers to old mission 70s when moving into 75% smaller space. Later added Xps dr, then finally / 552dr /500dr/555ps still with the missions in small apt. Now back with 804’s in a proper listening space. For me, the missions clearly outperformed the 804’s despite the compromise in listening space, Now the 804’s sing. Source first for me.
Well no. Inexpensive digital sources do not compare to the best ones
This is not what I said.
I’m very much of the source first view, based on experience building my system with a SN2, but allowing for overall system synergy and value for money and with speakers that work in your room and whose flavor you like.
At a basic level, the amps do just that, amplify a signal. It can’t add anything to that signal, which comes from the source and linkages earlier in the chain.
In my system, the SN2 is more than good enough to deliver the source benefits I have added: an XPS DR to the NDX2 and a Superlumina interconnect being particularly noticeable. The SN2 can drive the speakers well, and ensuring the amp can drive the speakers is a fundamental component of overall system synergy.
The other factor is lowering the noise floor by eliminating noise, which improves source performance. So refining cabling, power leads, network switches and cables etc to eliminate as much as possible, noise entering the source.
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I belong to the stone age, still spinning CDs. Beyond a balanced system, if I wanted to spend more on a particular component to reach the next level my choice would be speakers and then the preamp.
I once had nDac+555PS and RegaP9+SuperLine+HiCap into Nait XS+HiCapDR with small bookshelf speakers.
I had the feeling the musical result was not worth the money I invested into this setup.
The most balanced system I had until now was said sources with 282+HiCapDR+250DR into Ovators.
The 552DR I recently added clearly is better than the 282+HiCapDR, yet I feel this current setup is not well balanced and demands further upgrades, at least on the power amp side.
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I’ve never had a super source feeding my system until very recently. I started with CDX into 102/140 (well balanced) then had nDAC into 252/250-300 (not so well balanced). More recently, I put a ND555 in and it is absolutely wonderful; I cant believe how much it transformed my speakers, soundstage, everything. I was originally thinking I needed to improve my speakers, but boy was I wrong. Source first all the way now. Curious to hear the ND555 into Supernait to learn just how wrong I’ve been over the years.
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Right now I’m using a combination of main and second system components in a temporary living arrangement as part of a move.
I’m running my best source (LP12SE) into the second system’s Nait XS and Majik 109s. It sounds absolutely brilliant, to the point I don’t miss the big amps & speakers (even though I appreciate and enjoy the better sound I get from them).
If I were to spend this kind of money on a system, I’d do exactly this same source first balance. Indeed, I basically maxed out the LP12 before moving from the XS in the main system.
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Someone posted a month or so ago who was running a ND555 with a SN2. He wanted a low box count with the best source.
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To my ears the amp and speakers are really slaves
to the source.
The source to my ears is what I’m really listening to.
The amp and speakers are just trying to amplify and play the information that is the source signal.
I’ve tested a chord Hugo on a Yamaha HT amp and I can hear clearly that the superior Hugo Dac is there because of the massive increase in clarity
The same happened with a Naim Dac V1 into the same Yamaha HT amp. Big increase in musicality clarity and bass articulation.
Of course the more one increases the bandwidth with more expensive speakers and amps the more one has to spend in the source to get the most out of the speaker / amp
To answer the OP the NDX2 is already a hi end source costing 5k gbp. And it performs very well !
What is your source?
Yes, the 282, HicapDR and 250DR form a well balanced system especially if the source and speaker cables are optimised.
I think individual circumstances inform the solution. If living in an apartment with limited space a Uniti Nova might well be the answer. In which case why not optimise with the best speaker that fits the environment. After all at the Bristol Show 2018 the Nova combined with the Titan 505s received rave reviews.
Regards,
Lindsay
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I do not know but, in my view, all these so-called “principles” – source first, speakers first, etc. – are quite meaningless.
If a source is very good, the sound quality will keep on improving as one improves amplification and speakers. The same holds true the other way round: if the speakers are very good, the sound quality will improve as one improves source and amplification. If a source is crap, no speakers will make it sound good. If the speakers is lousy, no great source will make it sound fine.
I tend to think that starting with good speakers is important because replacing speakers is not as easy as replacing sources, especially one lives in a top floor!
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Now there is logic.
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I think that it depends on what your ultimate goal is, and how much money you might want to spend.
You could aim for the ‘ultimate’, in which case ‘source first’ takes precedence, but at the same time ensuring that the downstream components are good enough to demonstrate that a better source is worth the investment.
…or…
You might want to just buy a system ‘once and for all’, in which case the degree to which the source takes precedence might be less.
Either way, you should be happy with your music if you and your dealer get it right!
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Source, amp or speakers first, don’t overlook the cabling especially speaker cables if you feel something still doesn’t sound quite right even though you have spent a considerable amount of money on an upgrade to any of the above.
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I listen to Tidal/Flac library on Qnap/minim thru NDS; vinyl on rega rp6 with Aria phono amp. 552dr pre.
Very interesting topic. From a pragmatic standpoint, there’s theory and there’s real life: sometimes an opportunity is just too good to pass. It happened to me a few years ago when I ran across an Ex Dem 300 that I used with a 102 for a few months until I could afford a 252. Very bad matchup in theory but it was a very fun upgrade from an Olive 250 and I saved a lot of money that way.
I’m facing the same issue now - according to the “Source First” theory, my next step is either maxing out the LP12 (Keel and Ekos SE ) or upgrading my old XPS2 to 555 PS DR with the CDS3. However, I just heard about an Ex Dem 500DR here in Canada at a good price. That’s a very rare occurrence, so the Keel/Ekos and the 555 PS DR will have to wait.
I may end up at the stake of Source First, but I’m going for it!
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I ran the NDS/555 with my SN2 for a few years; the NDS definitely was not “wasted” or over-matched in that system!
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