Wrestling with Digital - and SBLs

Hi-Fi Corner
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I have found digital rendition of music rather troublesome over the years, CD or streaming.

I remember hearing the first Naim two piece CD machine when it first came out. My reaction was akin to hearing a six-pack into Isobariks for the first time; I wanted to run out of the door. It wasn’t that there wasn’t much to admire - it was that there were high frequencies that were akin to running finger nails down a blackboard.

This resulted in years of disappointment, running through a fair few CD players, and the first phase of external DACs.

When streaming first started to come available I had a listen. There were elements here that I really enjoyed; and this led to years of frustration as I got within spitting distance of a sound I could live with, but not quite.

Of course, there was no consistent playing field, as my system morphed.

Recently I have got to a system that I am enjoying as much as my LP12/Aro/Troika/'Geddon. Which I prefer comes down to the album.

A part of the issue here is the SBLs themselves. They were designed around the LP12/Aro/Geddon, I believe, and sound excellent with them. Absolutely underscored when I bought @Dunc Tron 7 G.T. phono stage, you made an old man very happy. It is going back to Graham for some TLC next week.

Having enjoyed the Chord Hugo TT I bought the Chord M-Scaler & Qutest (Qt), with a view to buying a cheaper Dave, when the Mk2 came out - Hahahaha.

By now I was using the dCS Network Bridge. I find this to be on a par with the Chord 2go/2yu in my main system.

This turned out to be a problem. Replacing the Qt in this became more than a bit difficult.

The TT2? Yes, undoubtedly better; but the Qt resolved a bit more via the M-Scaler.

The only DAC that I found, below BIG money, that I enjoyed more was the Synthesis Roma DC96. This has valves in the output stage. This worked beautifully by slightly bolstering the mids and allowing the sound-field to open slightly.

However, it didn’t allow me to get the full fat output from the M-Scaler.

Recently I have spent some time with the Weiss 204 and the Ferrum Wandla. These are both good DACs, and both improve with their PSUs.

I first heard the Weiss. The experience was akin to my first hearing the Tron 7 G.T.; as soon as I heard it I thought, ‘OK, this is going nowhere’. The dynamic nature of the Weiss fits the SBLs like a glove. For the first time I heard bass as percussion in my home system.

Still leaves me with semi-skinned M-Scaler output, but it works superbly. Come on Chord, time for Dave 2.

Adding a Vertere Redline between my Icon 4 passive and the Naim NAP300DR was a very nice addition. It added timbrel detail, whilst leaving a bit of upper end sheen behind. I HATE spending what I consider to be REAL money on cables, but sometimes I lose the battle with myself!

I have spent a while comparing LP to digital variants through my system. I could set up a playlist to prove either digital or analogue is better.

When the Tron 7 goes in for a service Graham tells me there may be some upgrades he can do …this may restore normality!

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You’re certainly not alone. The first digital source that I felt played music with the same conviction as my LP12 was the original CDS. Having owned a CDS3 I still believe that the CDS was the most musical CD player Naim ever made. I haven’t heard the CD555 though.

You are hitting the hammer on the nail! Yes the SBL’s, like the IBL’s (which I had) and DBL’s belong firmly in the analogue era. They are far happier with an analogue source, and specifically the LP12 which they love.

I’m not saying that one can’t get excellent results with a digital source but it’s far harder work than with speakers that were designed in the digital era. It’s an uphill struggle if one wnats to retain the magic that these speakers are capable of.

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General agreement with PJL. I wonder about the great ‘what if’, how it might have been if you had owned a CDS3 with your SBLs? I write as someone who absolutely loved them together. But there is no pleasure for me in making this post.

I hope you can get it sorted.

C.

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Hi Christopher,

Was that to me?

I am a very happy chappy. Getting great sound quality via both analogue and digital. Just took a long time to get there.

Of course, there is always the next step :rofl:

M

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Hi,

It was. I’m a ‘moods guy’. But I misread yours, sorry.

I saw ‘wrestling’, ‘digital’ and ‘SBLs’, and a litany of what looked like expensive digital upgrades and could only happily recall a simpler time with my CDS3 and SBLs. Naïvely, I thought you were unhappy with your set. Apologies.

C.

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:smile:

Absolutely no need of apologies, thx for being interested.

I neveer allowed myself to look at the CDS3, I set some limits on what I’ll spend on HiFi. Hence waiting for the price of a 2nd hand Dave to fall.

M

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I would say it’s not the speakers that are the problem,it´s the digital technology that is the problem, good speaker reveals that.

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Due to my unexpected SL2 outage, Ive had to setup SBLs on the end of my 552DR / Chord DAVE, in this context the SBLs are as good as the SL2s with absolutely no digital issues, sounds, well, superb.

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As long as I ran SBL:s it was with either nDAC/XPS2 or with non-oversampling ladder-dacs which have a more natural sound (stage). Early 2000s there were a lot of cheap chinese DACs floating around based on the old Philips ladder-chips.

A few years back I borrowed a Dave once while the owner went on a trip. I still had my olives and SBLs then. I can understand why people like it. Its just I want my details integrated, not in my face :slight_smile:

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Hi @HiFiman ,

First - my deepest commiserations WRT your SL2s.

A couple of years ago I think I bought the last set of drivers Naim had for the SBL, and had them installed by my dealer. Not cheap. I then sat back in the secure knowledge that the SBLs will last me until my demise.

Unfortunately, I borrowed a Gallium Nitride Class D amp. It fed a load of DC into my left speaker and fried the mid/bass driver :sob:

So, I am full of empathy for the range of emotions you are suffering.

Second - I love the SBLs. The pair I bought I hope to be buried in! Together with the collection of spare drivers I have stored in the loft.

These are certainly NOT the best speakers I have heard, but they worked damned well in my system and room.

With respect to the SBLs and their frequency response. I have not measured it, but I suspect it is not flat. I believe it was designed with the early LP12 in mind, which has an interesting frequency distribution, and one I happen to love. But, I have been brain washed by forty five years of listening!

The sound I get from the SBLs will, of course, be a combination of the system and the room. But, also my preferences will mark some things others will ignore. Having sung, poorly, in a number of choirs I know what the human voice sounds like, both direct and mic’d. If I hear an unnatural sharpness it bothers me. More than a number of my friends, who hear the effect that bothers me, are not worried by it.

I have worked hard to reduce level of spit and sheen. The most effective changes have included:

  • Sorting out my grounding;
  • Removing poor PSUs;
  • Installing a dedicated spur for the HiFI;
  • Putting a Ferrum Hypsos on my M-Scaler; and
  • Most recently using Vertere Redline twixt Pre and Power.

I now am enjoying digital that is as near as dammit on a par with my LP12 - in my main system. I have friends whose LP based systems are jaw droppingly good, and we will have a fine old ‘discussion’.

My system does not remove all high end tizz, we all have to cope with the problems in the recording and mastering chain.

For instance, rock/pop 1980s albums can be a tad hot. But here, digital can potentially have an advantage, as digital mastering has improved markedly. Some remasters can be a nice improvement.

Of course, sometimes that old LP, when cleaned, can still knock the spots off digital; despite the surface noise.

P.S.
Please let us know how the conversation with your daughters WRT your repossessing the SBLs goes.

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I certainly don’t think the speakers are a problem. It is that trying to get that synergy we all seek can take time and patience.

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I see, sorry I misunderstood you.

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You may well be right.

I do thoroughly enjoy the Synthesis Roma DC69 DAC in my system, which uses valves in the output stage.

There is an old discussion with respect to detail. Trying to get the balance right is, I believe, very much an individual calculation.

I know that should I get a Dave home in my system I may not think it the dogs danglies.

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