Good God yes. Cossack Vodka is Godawful stuff. Could at least have brought in some Stoli.
5 Likes
More BBC ‘nanny-state’ nonsense - absolutely unbelievable !
I think it’s a fabulous song and great lyrics, albeit nothing to do with Christmas anyway, but …
However, if you haven’t heard it, take a listen to the Christy Moore version, which I personally prefer.
Merry Xmas !
I think this was made by J& J Vickers rather than the awful stuff .
Many years ago I used to administer a Personality Inventory designed to elicit a measure of Extraversion / Introversion .
It included the following question
" Do you enjoy going to gay parties ? "
How the meaning of words have changed !
I also liked to think of myself as a rather discriminating person .
Again the word has been highjacked to mean something quite different .
I accept that language is dynamic and constantly changing but do find some modern parlance tiresome .
Regards
3 Likes
What really annoys me is how hypocritical the BBC are. They arbitrarily ban this sone by the Pogues for fear of “offence” and yet happily play songs by Stormzy and other rap/grime artists which feature misogyny and violence against women.
2 Likes
Couldn’t have said it better sir…
You see in my opinion some political correctness narcissists focus on current language being a fixed standard, and seem to fail to understand language and it’s usage evolves.
I do find an increasing trend of double speak and tokenism, usually coming from the US really quite divisive and alien in a European context, perhaps its fuelled by some of the society differences and segregations in that country. The term ‘people of colour’ is awful … as it’s divisive and potentially can cause offence as the term now is usually used to describe only a subset of people. All peoples of the world are of colour whether they have dark or pale complexions.
I did write to the BBC querying their increased use of this term, and how I argued in my opinion in many British contexts it is self defeating and divisive and that every person in the world is of a colour … I didn’t even get a reply. Which to me says it all.
6 Likes
Lets see how it goes. In my experience this ‘people of colour’ really got a boost during the statistical exercise which recently took place in the USA. When many people share their thoughts on this phrase it might well change. It is an odd and divisive phrase for sure.
I noticed that in the Netherlands where I live, I never got a reply from the state broadcasting company, but things did change. This was on an entirely different matter though.
Hi everyone…What a simply charming, thoughtful, well presented set of thoughts and views spanning what for some are heated and ultra controversial topics discussed herein…You are a credit to intelligent and sensitive debating! I frequent the DP Review photographic form (run from the US) and by comparison the majority of post are just plain…nasty.
I don’t know about the Pogues and don’t really “do” Christmas songs - unless Bach and Telemann cantatas and the Messiah class as such (!). I do most definitely love faggots and mushy peas…and the Fagot is a huge favourite of mine - along with the baroque oboe and oboe d’amour…!
The human condition means we all draw the line differently. The real mark of civilisation is appreciating and accepting others’ viewpoints without feeling the need to injure or kill them (either individually or en masse).
That social media and internet makes it easier to shout load and stridently the most outrageous twaddle ever conceived…is also matched by forums and discussion sites like this - whether occurring naturally, or expertly moderated…! Long may we continue to share our thoughts with sincerity and openness in a civilised and cultured manner. I salute you all!
Please stay safe, and above all enjoy your lovely music…!
10 Likes
Some on this forum , may choose to dispute ‘the artefact of immense cultural value’ remembering it never made Christmas Number 1 due to the Pet Shop Boys
2 Likes
My ears tell me that the Pet Shop Boys are far more offensive. A crime against music even.
3 Likes
Hi, how is your new system coming along ?
Certainly it sounds very interesting , and I am really looking forward to seeing it
Best wishes
The last bit finally arrived from the factory 2 days ago… and they sent the wrong speaker cables (about half what I paid for and definitely not enough). Another 5 days for the correct lengths.
I’m hoping next week. Taking whole week off work to do lingering odd post move jobs of which thehifi is No. 3 on the todo list.
1 Like
I must admit, I’m struggling to understand the claims of “PC gone mad” and references to oversensitivity. I fully understand the right to free speech but surely (most) people understand that “faggot” is an accepted offensive term for a gay man and is meant as such in the lyrics. Now to what extent this is meant solely as a depiction of a conversation between two (seemingly insane) people in the song, I don’t know. The lyrics are:
You’re a bum
You’re a punk
You’re an old slut on junk
Lying there almost dead on a drip in that bed
You scumbag, you maggot
You cheap lousy faggot
Happy Christmas your arse
I pray God it’s our last
The rest of the song is relatively pleasant, lyrics-wise. Freedom of speech surely allows a script/songwriter to paint a picture of a foul character uttering such words (and hopefully getting his/her comeuppance in due course…). What is not clear from the song is whether this is simply the songwriter’s own prejudice or maybe that oft used excuse that it is simply from another time or perhaps the artistic license of painting a vulgar picture as I mentioned above. This obscurity would be, I suspect, more apparent among younger Radio 1 listeners. Hence, I do believe there is a risk here that gay men and others will be offended by this lyric, due to the grey area around its situational use.
2 Likes
Where you guys when the BBC banned the Beatles A Day in the Life in 67, never heard any rubbish about PC gone mad then. Why is it so different now, there’s always been a level of censorship for many reasons. I actually like the song in question but I can understand that it may offend some.
Not such a tolerant bunch are we.
Don’t think the term had been coined then, Pete (and no social media to bitch on either). I think most people just laughed at the ridiculous Beeb bans for so called drug and sex references (Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds & I Am The Walrus got the same treatment). I guess times change. Personally I think the song in question should be played as originally recorded. Everyone has the right to be offended, but I can’t for the life of me take seriously anyone complaining about this particular use of the word ‘faggot‘. I wince more when I hear the word ‘queer’ used freely as a now acceptable descriptor of sexual orientation.
2 Likes
4 Likes
That was my point there’s always been some level of censorship, now we seem to find convenient labels for those that we disagree with. Does the BBC play Dire Straits Money for Nothing, the term faggot is used 3 or 4 times in that song alone.
Its a fine Pogues song, full of spirit and zest. And with the lovely Kirsty, whats not to like? Listen to it on the remastered and expanded If I should fall from grace with god. Brilliant album for a barn dance!
2 Likes
And that song has raised the same controversy. If there were masses of gay people complaining about both songs I might be more sympathetic but to me it’s PC gone mad.
2 Likes