1 source system vs multi source system, turning point

Hi-Fi Corner
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Sorry in advance guys for the long post but I am looking for advice and shared experiences.

Context: —>

As most of you, it has been 30 years since I’ve been in this hobby and now being in my 50s I’ve had my share of building systems, buying & selling gear etc. I have no regrets, it has been a great ride.

Up until 2 months ago I had 2 systems:

  • The main system in my dedicated, medium sized, room consisting of Harbeth 30.2 and JBL L82 Classics with a Technics SL-1210 turntable, various cd-players and an assortment of amplifiers integrateds and pre-power combos. It was a physical medium (vinyl & cd) hifi system since I had the spare space available.
  • The second system in our living and dining room sitting on a credenza consisting of Harbeth P3 with a Rotel A8 integrated and a MXN10 streamer.

Problem: —>

2 months ago my 19 year-old son (university student) took over my dedicated music room as he needed a space to invite his friends over to study or hang around.

This meant 2 things:

  • I had to store or sell almost all of the components residing in that system (I chose to sell most of them)
  • I had to rethink/readjust the secondary system and make it my primary hifi system but since this would reside in our living room other considerations (wifey) should be taken into account. To this end after long research and auditions, I decided on keeping my Harbeth P3s and buying a Naim Nait 50 to power them. The rest of the components would be my Technics SL-1210 turntable and the MXN10 streamer, all of them positioned on the credenza.

Seeking advice & shared experiences: —>

I’ve been contemplating on getting out of the physical medium world (specifically vinyl) making it a single source hifi system aiming at simplifying further for 2 reasons:

  • Lack of available space for storing records and/or cds (although I could store them in another room and having to deal with the involved hassle).
  • Allocating all the available funds on upgrading a single hifi source as opposed to splitting the funds to upgrade 2 or more hifi sources would make a more meaningful upgrade with bigger impact on the sound.

So we finally come to the all important question(s):

  • How many of you have you switched from a 2 or 3 source system (which involved physical medium vinyl or cd) to a single source streamer based system?
  • What are your experiences?
  • Do you miss it?

I reckon it would be a rather expensive mistake to sell my vinyl and/or cd setup and software only to realize a few weeks/months/years down the road that I need to buy it back again.

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  1. I have no idea of number or proportion, however I am one of many.

  2. My CD player dying 12 years ago was the trigger. Starting to look for another one I am very quickly realise that the future was streaming not CD, when absolutely no worse sound would be likely and the possibility of better given higher resolutions available and disk read error correction to affect things.

    Something that would help in the transition, was that only a couple of years earlier I had decided that vinyl had reached the end of the road, many of my records pretty well worn, new cartridge needed soon, and whilst CD didn’t sound the same it was no worse, so I had gone through and dig it all my vinyl (that was an interesting exercise that I detailed before on this forum), making CDs out of them but also retaining the digital files, which meant even before ripping CDs or buying downloads I would have a ready source of music. So I bought a streamer, and a NAS for the music files, and was very happy with it. (Of course I could improve things, and did move on from that first venture into the streaming world.)

    I proceeded to rip all my CDs, and sold my TT and vinyl. For legality I kept the CDs, stored in boxes in the garage (that aspect didn’t occur to me with the vinyl when I had ripped that). I have never looked back. All my music now resides in a very small box, with lots of space freed up. I can choose music from the comfort of my seat, and, even if somebody else use it, albums can never be put in the wrong sleeves/cases, or the place on the shelf.

  3. Whilst I do sometimes miss the tactility and ‘magic’ of looking at a good album sleeve and lowering the stylus onto the record, I have never for a momentregretted the move.

N.B. For clarity, other than occasionally using free online services to assess music new to me, I only stream from my own store of music files. Aside from having a rooted objection to subscription services to be able to play music, doing this way means I am absolutely independent of the vagaries of some online streaming services, where they may change catalogues, licensing terms or whatever. Also this is worth noting that if you buy a download or buy a new CD and rip it, the artist gets a lot more than even if you stream a file hundredsof times online. Of course to see this not true if you buy secondhand CDs and rip them, which many of us do.

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This is very true and one of my many concerns if someone only streams from subscription services.

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Subscription streaming services have vast libraries. On the odd occasion that an album you like is unavailable, buy a download or rip a CD instead and stream it locally. These occasions have been extremely rare for me, so I regard it as a non-issue.

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It does seem to come up often enough on this forum, whether a streaming service’s library reshuffle, something dropped for licensing reasons, or whatever. Having to go and buy a download or CD and tip, and put it in my store checking metadata etc, is not what ai would want any time when I have decided it’s the album that I want to play, right then! Also, though I omitted to mention, there sometimes can be internet issues (at either end).

To the OP: the above reminds me: when you download or rip files you need to check metadata and sometimes correct or add bits (and if you rip vinyl you need to add all necessary), because the vast majority of streamers rely on the metadata for file handling.

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I am slowly transitioning to having just having a three box solution. I basically only use my Cocktail Audio streamer, Naim XS 3 amp for my PMC speakers and a SPL Phonitor HP amp. for Headphone listening. It must be 15 years since my Turntable spun an LP and my CD player gets used less and less.

In the Bedroom I have a tiny two box solution: Lehmann Audio HP amp. and a surprisingly good Bluesound Nano Node.

I am slowly ripping all my CD’s to a tiny little external hard drive (+Backup HD). I command everything from an iPad, and being Data Base driven, everything is easy to find. Personally I do not miss faffing around with dropping needles into a groove or hunting through the CD cupboard for a disc buried at the back ( I have a couple of thousand CD’s). When I buy a new CD it gets ripped and mostly forgotten.

I still buy CD’s from a local record shop who’s owner I have known for 35 years, and they know my tastes and very often recommend me things I would have missed. It is also good to chat about music on a Saturday afternoon. But I increasingly buy downloads from Bandcamp, although stuff issued by the majors is only available on CD. I could get a Streaming subscription but I do not want to go that way for various reasons. I use the free Spotify for research.

I could probably live with just a Bluesound Node, SPL Phonitor,a good pair of cans, and some active speakers.

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I’m sorry for the long-winded response, but I just wanted to explain why I still have two sources.

Many years ago I had four sources, vinyl, cassette, tuner and CD. The first to be removed was cassette as it had few advantages over CD although at times it did seem more engaging, CD was just so much more convenient and reliable.

Then in 2014 my 12 year old CD5 started to show signs of age, so I bought a ND5XS and ripped all my CDs to a NAS. The music actually sounded better from the ND5XS than from the CD5 so I was reasonably happy with the change. However comparing internet radio to my NAT05, well there was no comparison. The FM service was much more involving than the internet radio so FM stayed. That was until storm Eunice brought down my Ron Smith Galaxy aerial causing damage to both my and my neighbour’s roofs. Replacing the aerial did not seem a viable option to maintain good neighbour relations. So internet radio became a requirement and knowing the performance on the ND5XS was not what I wanted it was replaced by a NDX2/XPSDR combination.

So where did this leave me? Well listening either to locally streamed music or internet radio I find my attention wandering after a while. The only source that I can honestly say keeps me engaged and listening for long periods is vinyl (FM radio also used to be able to do this). This is probably understating it’s role but the NDX2 essentially provides pleasant background music when required. I honestly believe that if I lost my Vinyl source I would sell the rest of the system and replace it by something like a Muso, I have a Muso QB in one of the bedrooms so I know how good it is.

I know other contributors will suggest a change of source, but in the Naim line any upgrade would be out of my financial ability. As for other manufacturers, I have listened to several alternatives, most suffered from the same limitations, the only exception was a very expensive DCS system which I only listened to for a short time as it was well out of my price range.

On a slight variation, I am in agreement with @Innocent_Bystander . I have an aversion to subscriptions, any new music I want I buy, usually from Presto, then I know I have it for life barring any environmental or similar catastrophe.

@Ris If you find all your sources equally engaging and are happy to replace any vinyl by streamed or downloaded music then I think you will be perfectly happy with a single source, but it is not for me.

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I’m not really sure that other people’s experiences meaningfully contribute to solving the dilemma. It’s a very personal decision. For each of those who have happily ditched their vinyl and CDs there will be another saying it’s a daft thing to do, that you’ll regret it and so on and so forth.

The final paragraph says something along the lines of letting it go and then needing to replace it. There is never a ‘need’ simply a want. What is important, the music itself or a semi religious ritual of taking out the record, checking it for dust, placing it on the platter and watching the stylus slowly descent. Or taking the CD out of its horrid plastic case, placing it in the player and pressing play. Work through this and you’ll have your answer.

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The music in Greggs is rubbish.

Roger

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This is one of my concerns as I do too find myself wandering after a while when I stream music (although when I am wearing headphones this is not the case).

I really don’t know if streaming was the only source option would rewire my brain to pay closer attention and not wander off. Maybe a trial of, say a month, withdrawing my turntable would answer that question.

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I no longer use cassette or FM radio so have retired those and frankly my CD collection is very rarely ever used either! I now listen 99.9% to vinyl and streaming and have considered ripping all my CD’s to the NAS, but I plan to nurse my ancient Naim CDi player along as it has served me well for 26 years and I’m rather fond of the old girl!

Buying vinyl makes sense to me because I (usually) enjoy the sound, love the format, the artwork and the physical action of using turntables. Also quite often nowadays high quality pressings offer different and superior masterings to digital sources and I increasingly enjoy collecting premium pressings like Rhino Hi-Fi of my very favourite records as well as crate digging in secondhand shops. There’s just something really engaging about vinyl which I don’t get from any other source, and it’s not just a sonic thing either. My records hold memories of old places, friends, events, my parents etc which no digital file will ever have. So I think of my parents when I put on the Sinatra boxed sets or Enya albums they bought me in the late 80’s and early 90’s for Christmas or I think of an old girlfriend who I was hopelessly besotted by (well she was very beautiful!) who bought me my favourite recording of the Vivaldi Four Seasons on L’oiseau Lyre by the Academy of Ancient Music. There’s magic in those old records and I love it! Spinning up Deacon Blue’s “Raintown”, Del Amitri’s “Change Everything” or Tanita Tikaram’s “Ancient Heart” puts me right back at university in Birmingham with all the happy memories it evokes…

Tidal is a no brainer for me because it costs little, offers a whole world of music to explore and discover and is great for just kicking back and relaxing. I’m turning ever more towards vinyl though nowadays as I become an ever more nostalgic old fool!

JonathanG

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Yes, so true, ultimately it comes down to this.

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If you enjoy record shopping, CD shopping, record shops, record fairs and like the warm glow which comes from having your music in and around you (much like folk love bookshelves) a single box streaming solution really isn’t a great idea I’d suggest. And a system involving a beautiful record player will always look better than a specialist computer for music imo.

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Apart from my history with cassette players, tape decks and FM tuners, I went from CD player only to CD player and streamer and finally to streamer only. The trigger to switch to streamer only was a failing CD5si. I now have all my CD’s ripped on a NAS and use Qobuz / Spotify Lossless and internet radio. I like the convenience and the huge catalog of music.

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For me, the question is very complex. As someone with disabilities, high-end audio can be very challenging. Naim is better than many manufacturers in providing UI that is easy to use.

We have 2500 LPs. I moved to high-end audio when there was only LP. Many of our records have memories associated with them, that playing brings back. Same for our 500 CDs

it would be easy for me to totally give in to my disabilities and only do streaming. I am trying not to do that. Walking over to the equipment and playing an LP or CD, forces me to overcome what I can and I want to do that as long as possible.

Then there is the “Security Blanket” question. My husband rarely plays the system, but finds pleasure in knowing that he could if he wanted to. I need to respect that which further ties us to LP and CD.

I am waiting for a Rega P10 that replaced my P9. My husband will handle the dust cover. which was the major barrier.

We are also fortunate to have sufficient high quality racks to accommodate our components.

We also have dedicated oak LP and CD storage from Per Madsen Design which is no longer in business. Great media storage.

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I went down to just vinyl about 25 years ago and haven’t looked back since.

My only recommendation is to put the physical media into storage for a couple of years before selling. I know a couple of people who went 100% streaming, sold their vinyl collection, and a year or two later missed their LP12 and decided to start building a vinyl collection again.

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Nice one! IPhone autocorrection niw manually corrected!

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Unfortunately three years I took the decision to stop using Greggs.

I just couldn’t take the risk Greggs would stop selling sausage rolls.

Haven’t looked back. :blush:

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I’ve always been two sources. TV and first vinyl, TV and CD and now TV with streaming local rips, Qobuz and Tidal.

The initial move for me was triggered by getting fed up of the obvious issues with vinyl allied to the massive reissue programme fed by the advent of CD giving me access to wonderful music which I’d otherwise have never heard or owned unless I’d been around at the time. Occasional irritation at patently stupid booklet design aside - usually countered by some wonderful Japanese replicas - it wasn’t a move I ever regretted. I sold most of my vinyl in 1993, keeping only those albums and singles with some value, whether emotional or financial. That wasn’t a space issue. At the time I had about 300 albums and even living in a flat that wasn’t an issue.

I’d started to look at streaming but with little urgency and initially finding nothing as engaging as my CDX2. Then the CD wall started moving from the wall and across the floor and my mind was focused. Moved to streaming 5 years ago this month. At that point the decision was as much informed by massive irritations with a multi box system, a far better understanding of my visual impairment and my needs from a user interface as much as it was informed by available money and an engaging sound.

@Jaybar makes a relevant point re: disability but it’s important to note that we’re all different and have different needs and priorities even with the same health conditions. I find the Naim app UI poor, the use of on device screens pointless and the reflections from New Classic simply untenable. The use of DIN compounds that. YMMV.

Stripped the by then 1,725 CD covers/booklets into 4 small boxes which sit under the sofa I’m typing this on. Nice as it was to keep them I find I only open those boxes when I’ve bought something from Discogs not available on streaming and have ripped it to my Innuos so need to add a cover to the boxes. I never miss them.

The CDs themselves sit in two locked flight boxes under the bed. A great back up if my actual backups were ever to fail. I don’t miss either vinyl or CD but would say that unless space dictates you must get rid of one or both then I wouldn’t. If you do though then it really isn’t the end of the world.

Finally, as with anything, people love simplistic stuff.

So, no, streaming doesn’t have “everything”. Yes, there are gaps but they are nowhere near the size people would have you believe and laughable in the context of what you can’t get on vinyl. The reason for such catalogue gaps are not a weakness of streaming. You simply can’t generalise. I found one album not available on streaming because the artist hates it. One missing because EMI Abbey Road lost the masters and so on.

And yes search on streaming can be easier than for large collections of other formats but as ever “it depends” on the app, what you’re comparing it to and much more. I find it easy to fall into a trap of just listening to new streamed stuff on release each Friday. It’s brilliant having such easy access but I sometime forget there are several thousand CDs to still be played as periodically as anything else.

Last two things. No, you don’t necessarily need expensive boxes, cables, switches etc. It’s very network and system dependent. A simple streamer and a good quality DAC will take you a long long way.

Oh, and anyone who says streaming makes you less engaged, more likely to flick through stuff etc. is basically describing a problem with them or their system rather than streaming itself. I have never listened to so many albums all the way through in my life. It’s nice to have an evening of flicking through stuff going “Gosh, I’d forgotten that” but it’s not compulsory and if streaming produces that behaviour more regularly in you then look inwards not out.

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@mikehughescq Prior to Naim I had a Rega system. I found the Saturn impossible to operate. Orange lettering on an orange LCD IMPOSSIBLE. The remote wax unreliable. Their mid level integrated was not any easier. Myself and my husband gave up listening b/c we could not operate the system. Naim was much easier.

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