250 vs 300

It’s not a room problem, but a room/ speakers /amp mismatch . If a room can’t handle a certain amount of bass, changing from one amp to a bigger amp will accentuate the problem, in most cases.
So yes, it’s a room problem, but also an amp problem, which creates too much high frequencies and bass in that room/ speakers combo.

From a price perspective, a 272/xps/250 ( cheaper) will sound better than 272/500 . So price is not all.

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The advice given is certainly useful and if you have the choice it makes sense to do it this way. But in my case, I had a need for a replacement power amp right now and I so much preferred the 300 that getting a 250 as a stop gap would have been wasted money.

My system since last year changed completely except for the speakers, and 10 months and 20,000 EUR later (OMG) I ended up with most things in order again, except for a rather obvious hole in the pre/streamer area due to the missing “372” (and I won’t decide vs 252/NDX2 before I hear that one). But guess what, the modest NAD C658 sounds way better with the 300 than it did with the 250 both in demo at dealer and at home. So YMMV.

And in my case, having the 300 sped up things considerably because it made a decision where I want to go, it made planning easier, and it made me not reconsider every 100 EUR like I did in the past.

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Interesting. Might look that up. What cables to use to connect the NAD with 300DR?

The Naim standard DIN/XLR cables changed from DIN to RCA. When the Naim pre lands, I will get myself real ones

By the way I already had the NAD before the 300 because I had wanted to do it “right” when I needed a streaming solution last autumn and had asked the dealer about the 272.

However, at the time my expectations were also lower than they are now and I had a Rotel RC1070 pre and RB1080 power amp. Streaming from the phone with aptX to a bluetooth receiver, you see :slight_smile: The dealer did not recommend the 272 even then (expecting discontinuation and a new one) and suggested the NAD as a good stop gap solution. And in my system then it was probably one of the stronger parts (in addition to the Rotels there was a Planar 3 from 1987 for example, and I planned to keep this one and the 1080 for longer, and the idea had been to start the Naim move with the 272, slowly).

Well, things happened, a lot of them, and here I am now. When the power amp had to be replaced after all, I auditioned others as well, also none-Naim, and the dealer guys were just as surprised as I how well the NAD grew with 250 and finally 300. Don’t get me wrong, I am sure that the 300 can do much more, and it will in due time, but it works well as it is.

The NAD does MQA and Dirac Live, and the latter is a bit of a hassle but certainly interesting to play around with (and you learn a lot about your room and the speakers in it, which will help later) and in some rooms and for some people it might even be a revelation

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To be clear, I was referring specifically to the bare 272, which I do believe is not up to the job of feeding a 300. A PSU upgrade does indeed improve its performance considerably.

For what it’s worth, I do tire a little of hearing the endless posts about the 272 ‘punching above its weight’ and so on, because my findings have always been that similarly priced alteratives perform very slightly better when I have compared them directly, in the same room, with the same speakers etc. For example, I found NDX/Supernait2 better than 272/250DR, and NDX/282/200DR better than 272/XPSDR/250DR. This was when I was considering buying a 272, and my dealer put together some alternative systems for comparison. I ended up buying the NDX/282/200DR because I preferred it.
If I hadn’t listened to any alternatives, I could happily have lived with a 272, and I am not for one moment claiming that it’s a poor product. In some ways I’m a little jealous of the neater cabling and the slicker volume control it shares with the Superuniti I used to have. But as for where it punches, I think when Naim priced it, they managed, as they usually do, to reflect its abilities quite accurately.

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For some obvious aspects ( price) , synergy ( Naim pre with Naim amp) , I am very doubtful on the fact that Nad c658 ( around 1,2 k streaming pre) outperforms 272 , both with 300 dr.
Very strange, sorry to doubt. ( more your dealer than you).

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Yeah I never said that it does

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Have I misunderstood?

It’s a terribly convoluted story and I tried my best typing it on the phone, but it may well have been confusing.

My main point was: following the standard advice is a good idea if you can. As always, the forum provided great advice. But if somehow you can’t, e.g. because something breaks and suddenly you have to make the next step up (if you wanted to make one) in an “inappropriate” place of the chain, it does not necessarily have to make worse what comes out of the speakers. Listen for yourself and you might just find out that money spent on a “too good” box further downstream may still be a good choice in the long run if it fits into your plan, without sacrificing all joy in the short run.

In my case, I made up my mind during lockdown that I want to go to 300 level. The NAD was already in place because when I wanted the 272 late last year it was the wrong time and I decided to wait and tide me over with the NAD as I needed a streamer. Then in spring the power amp needed urgent replacement, so I found out that 300 works best for me not just in a proper chain but also, for now, with NAD > 300. So I dediced to buy 300 now, and it does not expose weakness in the NAD to make it worse. Together it works better than other amps including lesser Naims, so I am happy now. Then the pre and streamer will come next year or so. I would not have been able to decide this now between 282/252/NDX2 and unknown “372” and it would not have made any sense to “source first” in this particular situation or to get an amp for a third or half the price just to replace it with a 300 again

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I don’t read that anybody is saying that a 300 is worser then a 250.
Everybody is saying that a 300 on a bare 272 is better then a 250 but also exposes the weak point of a bare 272.
It is sounding pretty nice but there are a few things just not right on the spot.
This have nothing to do with your NAD.

Yes, the NAD was just an example in the beginning and now I just wanted to clarify the misunderstanding that I would have said it is better than the 272. I did not, that would be ridiculous. Again: If the end goal is 300, its possible exposing of a weakness in the pre might still sound betterto your ears than the same pre with a 250 or whatever, and you may be able to live with it for a while until you improve the pre with a PS or replacing it. That’s all

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I need a lottery for a 555ps

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Not necessarily. It’s entirely possible that adding a 300 in place of a 250 might make things worse if the source isn’t up to it.

My upgrade order was source, power supply, preamp, speakers.

G

Much more clear and logical too.
However, if 272 .2 is never produced, what will you do, just by curiosity?

282 or 252 and NDX2 I suppose. I just want to know about the 272.2 first. I might like it, and box-count wise it would be much preferable. If not, I may be even more exited by “having” to make the bigger step. I just want to make an informed decision, and it was just a question of which comes first. (and both at the same time couldn’t)

Edit: Basically in the past 10 months I brought everything to target (or close to. oh, and speakers) that I could, I just couldn’t on the pre side, so I left that hole to fill and it’s just not the case that the 300 made it worse, quite the opposite. YMMV as per my first post on this. Just something to consider. Trust your ears in the given situation. (and in some cases maybe consider to live with any exposed flaws for a limited time if it saves funds overall)

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The 300 burndies need careful placement.

Is the 300 plugged to the wall direct ?

There is absolutely no audiosignal in that burndys.
I don’t see why they need special placement.
A DC signal is an DC signal. Only thing you can have is high freq. from mobile phones.
I try that with the phone against the cable. No difference.
Not even one strange sound.
Lets not make things hocus pocus.

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My 300DR/PS is 7 years old now (upgraded DR in 2016). There should be no degradation to audio quality already, right? When do you recommend doing the routine service on this combo?

Also, will a 555PS add bass to my 272/300DR? I mean the amplitude of bass and not the range of it. Because I find the 272/300DR to be a bit more slim in the bass than the 272/250DR and my hopes are I would get some more of it by adding a 555PSDR which should balance things up a bit in my system. Problem is no one seems to sell either XPSDR or 555PSDR…