250 vs 300

Mmmmm, I have Shahinian Obelisks, supposedly hard to drive, sound at their full potential to me (remember that i’ve driven them with a NAP300 for most of the 18 years too)… :slight_smile:

If you speakers function at their full potential, especially in the low end, driven by a NAP250, upgrading to a NAP300 should only change things for better.

If you get more low end with the NAP300 then it means your speakers are capable of more low end.

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I am about to move my hifi rig from a rather small and cramped listening room to our living room, a which is much larger and taller at 5.0m x 4.8m x 2.8m.

My big ol’ rear ported floor-standers should be able to breathe in there, as I will be able to pull them out further from the rear and side walls.

The living room, although almost square, has the advantage of solid walls and it is timber framed with timbers poking through at all corners, walls and ceiling, which should help with some dispersion. The walls are also uneven and the ceiling is partially vaulted which I also assume will help with acoustics.

If I still have problems I might dabble with some absorption (bass traps).

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Hope it works for you - a friend has a very square room and nothing has ever sounded really good in there

But I dont want any more low end. My Obelisks produce a tight fast deep bass as good if not better than any I have heard before (including with the NAP300) :slight_smile:

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If the NAP300 allow your speakers to produce “more low”, then it means the NAP250 doesn’t drive your Obelisks to their full potential.

You then use the NAP250 to reduce the amount of low end your speakers are capable of.

It didn’t. Could just be that a 250DR is better than a bare 300.

That’s a far different matter :sweat_smile: The NAP250DR could well be better then the NAP 300 non-DR.

As I remember it 250DR had more low end as in higher amplitude however not as deep low end as 300DR. I think people often talk about different things when they say “more” bass. No one should suffer from deeper bass, but more bass I understand can be problematic/beneficial in some situations.

My last room was similar in size to this, and it was really difficult to deal with the peaks and nulls in the bass, even with quite small speakers. With some trepidation I moved the system upstairs to a room that was smaller, with a suspended timber floor, and a stud wall. On paper it seemed risky, but it’s actually by far the best room I’ve ever had the hifi in. Good luck!

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Your SL2 responded just well with bigger amps in your room. But other speakers don’t. Mine are very easy load speakers and they reach their full potential with a 250dr.
Of course, I could have done some room treatment to allow my speakers and room to work with a 300dr. I tried that option, with many different panels, bass traps, from different brands, in all possible locations.
It sounded more accurate and controlled, but less lively than before. I just prefer the 250 dr in my room, ears, preference.
My speakers can work with tube amps, it’s not a Naim design as your SL2 that can work at best with a 500 dr and close to walls.

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Yes, I am aware of the problems with square rooms, indeed my current listening room is also almost square - 3.0w x 3.3d x 2.6h

So I am substituting a small square room for a large square room with a higher ceiling. Given the size of my speakers I am hoping the latter will be better as I can at least move the speakers away from the rear and side walls, something that is not possible in the current listening room.

Any thoughts gratefully received - although I promise the OP I will open a new thread if this carries on too far.

I guess it depends on your tolerance for bass traps and other room treatments. Perhaps it’s easier to blend them in with a larger room, although personally I find then unacceptably ugly. Still, if you’re prepared to consider them I would get the room measured and have the results assessed professionally rather than wasting money buying stuff and guessing what to do with it.

Finally, if you’re prepared to give Roon a try, loading some properly calculated DSP settings into it could be worth a try. I would only consider this after optimising the room layout and adding any physical room treatments to give a final tweak.

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Hi Nigel, potentially great news if you will be able/ allowed to put some bass traps in the corners behind the speakers. I’m using GIK Soffit bass traps in the speaker corners, as they are effective down to Hz 25 and up ( it looks as if your first strong modal issue is in the Hz 30-35 region ). They measure 120x42x42 cm. and a 2 inch gap to surrounding walls in corners.
Maybe starting a new thread would be an idea. Great thing is that you will have more space for treatment should you so wish :+1:t3: Good luck Peter

( Not that I’m asking you to divulge too much personal info, but how’s your marriage Nigel? :rofl:)

I didn’t lost really money, because I kept one panel actually which improved one corner. I sold the second one for quite the same price.
Then I tried 2 different bass traps from the GIK. 4 monster bass traps during 15 days, in different locations. I globally preferred without.
Then 2 corner bass traps from GIK too, in different locations too, during 15 days too. Same results, some airiness and life was removed.
I could return all to GIK and was refunded.

The best results I had was with Finite Elemente cerabases under my speakers. It was transforming. The bass was much cleaner and controlled, and the sound more open and natural.

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I listen primarily to acoustic music (classical, jazz and folk) and to me, the 300 is vastly superior to the 250 in all important aspects - lower noise, more detail, more natural timbres, and better integration of the whole spectrum (bass/ mid/highs).

This said, based on the responses on this thread it’s clear that like any upgrade YRMV based on musical preferences, system / room interactions, etc. As we all know that is always the case - upgrades that look perfect on paper may just not work in real life. That’s what makes our hobby so interesting.

Personally I’d love to try Harbeth Monitor 40.2s with my 300 DR (I couldn’t make the non-DR 300 work with Monitor 40.1s in my room) but as we contemplate moving in a smaller house in a year or two, timing is off for the upgrade. Who knows, maybe Monitor 30.1s or even P3 ESRs may be more appropriate by then.

Claude

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I read some comments about the P3 ESRs driven by a NAP 500DR. Apparently with great results.

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Strong enough to survive moving the hifi into the living room, but those bass traps are BIIGGG!

I think I need to let the dust settle on the black boxes in their new position first and only tackle the bass trap issue if absolutely necessary. Even then, much buttering up, even horse trading, will be necessary.

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I have a 250DR and it’s a fantastic amp. But I’ve heard a 300DR on numerous occasions. Each and every time it delivered more of everything.

Regards,

Lindsay

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I think you may well be pleasantly surprised. I have a similar square room with beams etc and heavy carpet and curtains…and it works for me. Hope it does for you.

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