250 vs 300

I can sympathise with this. I sold my non-DR 300 for a 250DR. I was happy with my 300 for 18 years until I built a new extension 2 years ago which now houses the hi-hi. Suddenly the 300 would not perform in the same way however many times I rebuilt the Fraim and re-dressed the cables. I put this partly down to new room acoustics. The 250DR copes much better in the new environment. Maybe the sound signature of the 250DR (which was always different to the 300 to my ears) is better suited to the new room layout?

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We have very similar experience so. Good to hear that Timmo and me are not alone :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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I haven’t heard a 300 at home but decided to stick with a 250DR, even with my 552, as the balance is so good in my rather small listening room.

I am about to move the hifi to a much larger room, so things might change.

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The forum can be a very lonely place FR!

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Arrrr…you guys can always talk to me…

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More details on what didn’t work out?

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Well the new room has more glass, a sloping roof, big Veluxes and no carpet, plus close furniture, which is the opposite of before. To be honest I was always a fan of the 250 sound signature anyway (often described as ‘more boogie factor’) although I did get used to the refinement and more ‘laid back’ qualities of the 300 and appreciated the step-up from the 250. In the new environment however, the Hi-Fi just sounded ‘dull’ almost ‘overnight’ (although I did pack away the Hi-Fi for 9 months while the extension was being built). I know it’s not the 300 because the chap who bought it loves it. The only thing I can put it down to is the new environment. The 250DR for me has brought back a level of engagement in the music that was missing with the 300…

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I might add I’m comparing a 300 with a 250DR, not a 300DR which I have never heard…

Cheers Nigel. It’s difficult sometimes to be a naysayer in the face of overwhelming herd behaviour! I must dust down and re-read my copy of Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

Definitely!

Hi Nigel, please enlighten us :thinking: ATB Peter

I tend to agree with the first assumption regarding the fit of the amplifier to the speaker, but-
What does it have to do with the nature of the room ?!
The most important component in the system even before the source, is the listening space.
Any reasonable amplifier with a reasonable speaker will give an excellent result in a treated space.
A more expensive amplifier in the hierarchy will not necessarily give a better result in an untreated space.
Therefore, I do not think that the discussion about the type of amplifier - 250 or 300 is better or less good, relevant to the listening space.
In my experience,
Superniat 2 with NEAT XLS, in a reasonably treated room, gave a good, significant result, from 250DR connected to the same speaker, in a room without treatment.

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I must admit I’m glad this thread wasn’t around when I blindly upgraded from a 250DR to a 300DR!

For me the change has been really significant for the better. I was in the mindset like @NigelB to stay with a 250DR for eternity, enjoying the simpler system and lower box count and max out the source and pre-amp end of the system.

However an ‘accidental purchase’ of a 300DR came about so in it went and I’m really staggered how much better the 300DR is in my system. It’s up there with the largest upgrades I’ve done.

I think as you go up the ladder components become less obtrusive and just sound more natural and engaging, it’s like they are not trying as hard to please. If you have compared an NDX v NDS or an NDX2 to a ND555 you will know what I mean.

For me the stand out benefits are.

  • Low level listening is so much better
  • You can follow the lines of things so much better and I’m hearing things I haven’t heard before, rather like a source upgrade - probably the biggest improvement
  • Bass - it’s less bloated until some deep bass comes along and really surprises you as it wasn’t there before!
  • Soundstage - I’ve never been a soundstage kind of person, not sure I am now but I listen off axis and it seems to matter less than it did before due to the improved separation. I think it’s the separation between instruments that gives the extra detail.
  • It can go really loud without seeming stressed, the 250DR will become muddled (by comparison) as the volume increases and change its character slightly, not as much as a NAP200 but it still does it to an extent. I’m sure a 500DR improves on this aspect even more.

There is definitely more ‘energy’ in the room, the speakers seem to have grown considerably. If I had been taken blindfolded into the room and asked to guess which component had been changed I would have probably said the speakers, an upgrade to a larger model from the same manufacturer. I wonder if this is the reason why some people have had less success and find that it’s a ‘room thing’?

I think the 300DR is actually very good value. It seems expensive for a reworked 250 in 2 boxes but it’s so much more than that.

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agree totally with the above on 300DR

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Indeed, the room is part of the system. In fact, it’s the most important part. A great part of the sound signature of the system is related to the room.

This is often not taken into consideration, or perhaps unconsciously avoided. We can buy stuff, but hardly change the room …

The NAP 300 has no direct impact in the room.

But, being a very capable amp, the NAP300 will take your speakers to their specs.

If your speakers are capable of doing 35Hz, the NAP300 will allow your speakers to produce those 35Hz.

Downgrading from 300DR to 250DR is, in some way, restraining your the speakers.

Not sure that preventing your speakers to function at their full potential is the best way to deal with room related problems :thinking:

Restraining speakers (under powering them) not only affects the low end. It affects the whole frequency range.

EDIT : if I hadn’t the possibilty to treat my room, I’d go with very small speakers and a muscle amp. Magico Q1 and NAP500DR. Good small speakers with a big amps can be a real marvel!

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When @frenchrooster said a better amp can ruin the sound I did have a chuckle to myself.

If you’re speakers suit the room, they’re going sound better in that same room with a better amp.

I’ve gone from 252/300, 252/300DR, 552/300DR, and now 552/500DR with SL2s.

They sounded better with each upgrade. I must be doing something wrong… :thinking::wink:

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I would very much agree with above points, as in you introduce a more capable amp with better resolution and grip and it sounds worse, well to me there is only the room response to look at and deal with. ATB Peter

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Me too moving from 250DR to 300DR. Great summary.

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I have actually done the same. When using a non-Naim preamp I prefer the 250DR. With 52, 252 and SC I still think the 300DR is ahead. Of course getting rid of the burndys was another advantage. 250DR + Powerline + Super Lumina.

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Tell me more about the EAR Yoshino 912 + 250DR combo :slight_smile: