250 vs 300

well I used to own a B&W 805S and loved them too, until I heard much better speakers from Sonos Faber (Olympica, Elipsa and Stradivarius) and Dynaudio (confidence C1 and C2)

I have 805d3’s on the end of 282/HCDR/200DR and think hey are fabulous. Everyone has a different viewpoint on what sounds good and what doesn’t and none of them are wrong!

By the way the nitpicking arguments achieve nothing but unpleasantness and rancour, so lets keep it civil folks! I’m going back to sleep now!!

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This is interesting. I understand it’s all based on experiences and personal opinion, and I have mine too. :smile:

My experience with Naim is limited to Nait XS, 202, 200, 282 and 250DR with HCDR. Although I haven’t tried the 252/300DR, I have tried many other amps prior to settling down with the 282/HCDR/250DR. The only Naim amp that sounds close to other makers is the Nait XS. I compared it with the Rega Elicit Mk2 and both sounded very much alike. I had a friend over and we looked at each other after the amps were swapped. We both came to a conclusion that there was a tiny bit of difference in presentation and there wasn’t much separating between the amps. It was a quick A/B sighted test.

In my experience and opinion, a slice of high quality Naim sound starts at 282/HCDR/250DR and anything below it is not worth looking at. So far I haven’t experienced something as dynamic, robust and colourful as this Naim setup. The sound is unique and quite different in comparison to amps from other makers. If there are equipment that sound rather similar to the 282/HCDR/250DR at a considerably lower cost I would be interested to know what are those amps. I recently acquired a Luxman L-590AXII although it sounds very very good, I still kept the 282/HCDR/250DR as it still holds the edge when it comes to a robust, relentless and dynamic delivery. With select speakers the Naim is still a better fit.

Although I don’t have experience with the 252/SCDR/300DR, I can somehow imagine the areas where it will outperform the 282/HCDR/250DR after I got the Luxman into the system. This is not suggesting that the Luxman sounds like the 252/300DR but after comparing the 282/HCDR/250DR to the Luxman, the deficiencies of the former are rather apparent.

Hi Ryder, any chance of describing the difference in sound performance of the Luxman compared to the Naim gear out of curiosity? Thank you Peter

Any way its good to see that there is a healthy discussion about Naim products on this forum! Keep it up all. :grinning:

Hi Peter, no problem. I would have to add that the loudspeakers will play a huge role or factor in determining the final outcome.

After trying the Luxman L-590AXII, I realised that the 282/HCDR/250DR is lacking in poise, refinement and detail. The Naim does macrodynamics very well, producing a big, colourful and vibrant sound that’s full of excitement. However, when matched with certain speakers (in my case Marten Duke 2), the sound is overly bright and rough in the treble. The unrefinement really shows with piano as the tone or sound of the piano exhibits a noticeable glare and sounds smeared and unnatural. Apart from this undesirable brightness in the treble, the overall sound is forced and too intense. In summary I feel the 282/HCDR/250DR is quite coloured in its presentation.

The Luxman L-590AXII on the other hand sounds much more delicate, refined and detailed than the Naim. Music just sounds right, in fact everything sounds right from the tone of instruments to human voice. No smearing and no glare. Very nuanced delivery with fine details revealed much better with the Luxman. Basically nothing sticks out like a sore thumb with the Luxman.

The areas where Naim is better than the Luxman, and this is only with Harbeth SHL5+ speakers, are with punch and dynamics. The Harbeth sounded flat and lacklustre driven by the Luxman although detail, tone and refinement of the Luxman is very good, better than the Naim. The Naim brought the Harbeth to life, a sound that’s colourful and vibrant. There is no brightness or glare with the Harbeth/Naim setup. The Harbeth sounds a little dull with Luxman.

What the 282/250DR lacks is refinement, subtlety and detail, it makes up for in a robust and dynamic delivery. Loudspeaker matching is key, apart from personal taste or preferences.

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Thank you very much ryder for your response :+1:t3: . Enjoy your new system Peter

I have a similar experience with Naim and Audio Physics. It felt forced and too intense in my room. Isn’t it quite common people complain about the 282 adding to that? When I moved to Harbeth SHL5 Plus and left Supernait 2 and 3 behind for 272/250DR everything felt right.

Now I’m curious in what a 300DR would add and a 555PSDR and a… :dizzy_face:

Matching between components fitting your room acoustics and taste is key.

It’s all personal, I was pretty much convinced I wanted the SF’s (i.e. biased in favour of them), but didn’t like them at all with the Naim, quite a disappointement. Dynaudio were okay, but not special. B&W and Revel both amazed me in the way speakers should if you’re going to shell out on them. I went with B&W in the end.

Reading the forum, popular opinion seems to suggest otherwise, but at least for the 500 series B&W proved to be the most popular speaker, so perhaps we are the silent ones?

I remember that, and as someone who uses B&W804S with Olives I share the B&W love. I did note that the vast majority of B&W speakers I’ve seen mentioned here are 800 series with high end black/Olive boxes, but that might be skewed by the poll on the what do you use with 500 series amps giving a lot of data on the high end.

… and having to mess around with all the additional cabling. That has always put me off.

Yes, the “over-exuberance” of the 282 is often said to contribute a lot to the intensity and energy of the system. I presume the effect is compounded by the 250DR after I read the comparison between the 250 and 300 on this thread. Yes, matching of amplifier to loudspeakers, room acoustics and personal taste are all related. The exuberant, upfront and dynamic presentation of the 282/250DR can be seen as positive desirable traits instead of negatives.

I have listened to a pair of Audio Physics Avantera several years ago driven by Krell amplification. We compared the Harbeth M40.1 to the Audio Physics Avantera in the same room and the Audio Physics did show a more forward and dynamic presentation. The Harbeth sounds softer and rounded especially in the treble.

It is good to hear the Harbeth SHL5 Plus sounds great with 272/250DR. I am convinced the sound quality will improve if you go up the Naim chain, especially with Harbeth speakers since the SHL5 Plus still sounds great with the 282/250DR and doesn’t show the aggressiveness and sibilance in the highs. I would think that the 272/300DR will sound even better on with the SHL5 Plus. I’m pretty much settled with the 282/250DR on my SHL5+ though. I am currently deriving a lot of listening pleasure from my newfound speakers Marten Duke 2 driven by the Luxman L-590AXII. As a matter of fact I think this system actually sounds better and more satisfying than the Naim/Harbeth system.

Any votes for the 282+300DR over the 282+250DR ?? The first pairing is generally considered a well matched combo so is the 282 worthy of the 300?

I used the 282 into my 300DR with both a HCDR and SC powering the 282

the 282 is more than happy with the 300

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Sounds like the 300 can make more of the 282 than the 250 then but at the same time, to what extent is the 282 a bottleneck on the 300 compared to say, the 252?

I don’t think in any way the 282 is a bottle neck for the 300

if you prefer the slighly forward presentation of the 282 vs 252 depending on what you lisen too and how to lisen to it you might prefer the 282 over the 252, the 300 IMO offers more focus, drive and sound stadge over the 250DR, which in no way means the 250DR is not a great AMP - it’s down to you and how the system from source to speakers works for you

I have gone through most set ups over the years until I landed where I am now - for me the best set up with the 282 is with SC or SCDR into either 250DR or 300DR, for me I play 95% vinyl so the journey and road map to my final 252/300DR was writen

either AMP would work but getting that musical balance in the system from source to speaksers to me is the key to un lock each peace

just enjoy the journey and the music! :grinning: :grinning:

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Yes indeed B&W always impresses in a showroom demo…
as I said I lived with mine happily for a few years but after hearing some truly sublime and neutral speakers (The dynaudio Confidence C1 and C2), I soon heard how bright and slow the B&W are by comparison.

I have never heard B&W speakers that I liked, in a showroom, dem room or in a friend’s house. A friend has 802d3s (previously had 803s) that I have heard quite a few times on his full 500 system and I always prefer my SL2s when I get home. Heard some top of the range but old version 800 and somethings at Moorgate about three years ago (the previous listener bought them and returned half an hour later with a van!) but preferred my SBLs when I got home (SL2s replaced them two years ago).

I cannot say what I don’t like about B&W speakers. I just don’t like them. Speakers are so funny like that, aren’t they?

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From very recent and past experience I completely agree. Anyone thinking 282/300 should consider (try if possible) the 252DR first. The received wisdom of the 282 being more ‘lively’ than the 252 was perhaps true pre DR. With a SCDR on a recent 252 I’ve found no loss of life whatsoever. The gains are more insight and sophistication with everything sounding that bit more like real musicians in the room.

G

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Hi @GraemeH. IMHO I think anyone looking at a choice between a 252 and 282 should still listen and make a personal decision on this. I thought the 252 was easily the best choice for me but I can still see why some might prefer the 282.

I agrees with your summary of the 252 but in the A/B demo of music like Pinnock/Mozart/Haffner symphony the extra detail and space made the 252 sound slower and there is a choice to be made if your music needs drive to it.

Sure someone will now tell me to get everything you need a 552.

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