252 Sound Signature

This is an area I have pondered over the last few months. If there is an optimum range for each component somewhere in the middle of its extremes, are we (am I) making the best of the 252/300 at just 8 0 clock volume?

In my system my stacking order is

252
NDS
300DR
SC DR
300PS
555PS

The logic being to keep all the brawn, i.e. units with transformers at the bottom of the stack with the largest transformer at the bottom. It works well for the Burndies too.

I donā€™t know if this would improve the sound of your system but maybe worth trying when you have a spare afternoon?

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One of the biggest differences the 300 made for me vs the 250 during demo was how much better the 300 was at low volume. Similar is said about 252 vs 282 though I have not compared them.

Arguably, you are keeping them well within limits. However, there is a whole world of hifi gear aimed at low-level listening, there are speakers aimed specifically at this, low-output valve amps, and so on.

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Agreed, in particular the 300PS has no business being that close to the heads as it is simple to just not do that. Your order is the most useful indeed

Using my 252/ 300DR up to about 10 oā€™clock, with the CD555. The sweet spot seems to be around or just below this level - above this a bit of shrillness creeps in. My Dynaudio Contour 60s are 88dB I think, so the combination is able to drive them with comfort and fill the room with sound. The older Contour 1.8 Mk 2 are a bit more demanding in terms of current draw.

My speaker sensitivity is 84db. I run my 252 (with 250dr) anywhere between 9 and 10oā€™clock. I find it varies with the recording - older recordings (1970ā€™s for example) tend to need higher volume.

Nevertheless it is better at lower volumes than the 282, I feel.

Thanks, Iā€™ll give that order a go. My logic was to create distance between PS boxes and their partners to allow the Burndys to hang without hitting the floor, and to keep the 555 PS & ND apart. Also because the speaker cables more naturally landed on the bottom shelf. But itā€™ll be a worthy exercise. Thanks again.

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pieba,

I have intentionally omitted to mention the DR technology because it actually changed the rules a littleā€¦ In a good way. After it was introduced, in my opinion, it all also became a matter of DR or non-DR gear. I have often struggled to decide whether I like older, non-DR units or newer ones more. For sure, DR has brought benefits but one wonders why Naim has stuck with LM317 regulators for so long: if it was part of the Naim sound to use very simple, basically implemented regulators why move to a sophisticated, discrete one? If the discrete technology was better, why not adopting it earlier? But this is just useless speculation. I still enjoy older technology at my brother-in-lawā€™s and new one at my dealerā€™sā€¦ Without conflicts.
:slightly_smiling_face:
m.

Max I can understand and I agree with you. Right now I ve a non dr setup but I plan to move to a dr. My wallet suggest 282+2hcdr but the ears suggests 252 setup. My point is that probably because of the diminutive returns law the first setup is the best value and the same for 250dr vs 300dr

pietba,

I agree that such thing as a ā€˜best valueā€™ exists, only I am not sure the concept applies all the time the same wayā€¦
I consider the ND5 XS2 a best value streamer and the extra cost of an NDX not entirely rewarding; on the other hand, I find that a SuperCap is worth the extra money over two HiCaps, especially if one is patient and finds a used one. I am not sure that the technology in a streamer or a DAC entirely allows for quantum leaps in sonic pleasure and true upgrades; and I am sure, as far as my ears and my money are concerned, that in any HiFi system there is a ā€˜kingā€™ piece of equipment around which the others can be chosen and to which they adapt. In my case it is presently the source; my amp costs little more than 1/3 of my CDP and my speakers little more than the amp; it works for me; but if for someone else the main thing is the speakers I can wholly understand it. Unfortunately, the few speakers Iā€™ve heard that truly excited my fancy per se were way too expensive, and I always find that an excellent amp can be the center of a system and make cheaper loudspeakers flourish.
Balance among the various pieces truly applies within a Naim setup: Naim is a very coherent audio ecosystem. If you move more freely among brands, you can have relative unbalance among the various costs because gear is not priced and voiced with an eye to sibling ancillaries following a coherent and progressive upwards path; and yet, if I was to go back to some Naim today I wouldnā€™t choose a given ā€˜levelā€™ or a whole combo but would try to spot one king of the system and would buy other pieces to complement it.
For me, today, the king of the system would be a 252/300. But thatā€™s just meā€¦

Best wishes for your moves,
m.

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So many factors at play here I must have fell lucky with my new 282 as it has to be the best I have heard, period.

It drives a none DR300 into SL2s (audio bliss) but has an excellent source ND5XS2/MScaler/Qutest at the helm.

Careful setup using two Fraims.

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We are getting away from 252 sound signature but best value for money from the current range for me, is Hicap/282/250. Best SQ though has to be the SC/252/300 so far. I expect the 552 to be better again but then we are looking at a large increase in cost for a smaller increase in SQ as we go up the range. I havenā€™t heard any of the Supernaits though. Better value for SQ may be in them.

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Thanks a lot Max, as usual you have been more than clear. Following an upgrade path would you consider 282/252 or 250/300 as a first step?

I used to own an SN3 and can say that it is very good. I moved up to a 300 rather than a 250 because the SN3 was so good I didnā€™t think the improvement was sufficient to warrant the cost. The 300 changed everything.

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Itā€™s always good to have an excuse to tear it all down to give it a clean and a rebuild; itā€™s now clean again and in the suggested order and sounding good. If pushed I might even suggest that itā€™s better, regardless itā€™s still hugely enjoyable.

Thx for the nudge.

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With the caveat that I havenā€™t heard Statement with a vinyl front end and speakers that I truly appreciate, for me the best sounding Naim system by the proverbial mile is the 552/500 with either Kudos 808s or Neat XL10s with a really good TT or CD555. Whether that is VFM is subjective but it would be to me because Iā€™d listen to it every day.

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Wow, this was quick, congrats :slight_smile:

This has to do with the input sensitivity of the preamps. When I was using the 282 and 202, I have the same frustration that I cannot listen beyond 8 oā€™clock and the usable range is hence small. Naim really need to look into this for their next preamp refresh. The integrated amps (5, XS, SN) on the other hand donā€™t have this issue.

I have my NDX2 above the 252, as per my dealers advice to have the most sensitive unit on top. What are peopleā€™s thoughts/experience with that?

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The vast majority seems to have the pre on top, quite adamantly, but there are some dealers who put the streamer on top. It may or may not make a difference, I havenā€™t tried, and by the same argument of ā€œmost sensitiveā€ you could also put the pre on top. I was wondering if it makes a difference whether there is a TT on a wallmount above - if so, one might want to maximize the TT-pre distance